Dear community and experienced Anime Studio users, I would appreciate if anyone could help me on this:
I drawed a character in anime studio in 4 sides (front, 45, side and back), and after that I put all the parts that had to be rotated to another direction in a switch (for example I put head front, head 45 and head back in a switch layer so I can rotate the head during the animation, also did the same with other parts). After that I tried to set up bones on that character and I set them correctly as it said in the tutorial, but they won't work because I put the body parts in switch layers and the bones doesn't seem to have influence on the vector layers inside the switches. When I try the manipulate bones tool only the bones move without the body. I also tried the layer binding and it worked when I bind the head and the other head parts (eyes, mouths etc) to the head bone, so the bone has influence on the head only, but when I repeat this action (layer binding) to other parts like arms then I bind the arm to 1 bone but the problem is that the arm contains 2 bones so I can't bind the arms layer on 2 bones at the same time, and when i try to manipulate, the whole arm moves without beeing curvitated.
If you don't get anything from this, I uploaded my anme file so who is interesed to help me can download it from rapidshare.
http://rapidshare.com/files/84787062/ex ... .anme.html
Need help!
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
A bone layer can only influence any layer which is directly inside it. If you put something into a switch layer, you can only bind the switch layer as a whole to a bone, but what's inside the switch layer cannot be controlled by those bones. It is common to have different views of an arm to have their own bone layer, so the hierachy would be:
body bone layer
> switch layer for arms
> > bone layer for one arm view
> > > vector arm
> > bone layer for another arm view
> > > vector arm
Alternatively you may use the switch layer as a bone layer - yes, that works, too. But in most cases the different views differ so much from each other that it doesn't make sense to bind them all to the same bone rig.
body bone layer
> switch layer for arms
> > bone layer for one arm view
> > > vector arm
> > bone layer for another arm view
> > > vector arm
Alternatively you may use the switch layer as a bone layer - yes, that works, too. But in most cases the different views differ so much from each other that it doesn't make sense to bind them all to the same bone rig.
If I do as you said, which will be the parent bone that moves the whole body then? Should I create a single bone when the bone layer that contains the whole body parts is selected and bind all layers on that bone?
The main question now is, should I even create bones in the "body bone layer"? Or just create bone layers for every single vector and there ain't main parent bones that moves the whole body.
The main question now is, should I even create bones in the "body bone layer"? Or just create bone layers for every single vector and there ain't main parent bones that moves the whole body.
If you have "Switches in switches" then the TOP level switch can be bound to a bone and all the nested switches will follow along. The nested switches don't need to be bound.
Create the skeleton just the way you want. Bind each PARENT switch to the appropriate bone. The nested or sub switch group layers will take care of themselves. They are inside the bound switch so they do whatever that one is doing.
To have sub control of the switch layers to say, bend an arm at the elbow you would need bones in the switch.
Yes, there can be issues with bones in switch layers due to the changing shapes of the layer it is moving but you can actually have more than one set of bones in a switch if needed. For example if a layer in a switch is a certain shape draw the bones over it to control it. If another layer in the same switch is completely different draw ANOTHER set of bones to control THAT layer. Use bone offset so they all line up properly.
When you animate and you choose different switch layers then just use the different bones to move them.
This is a very complex set up by the way. Both the original you are working on AND the one I described using multiple bones. It can get quite confusing while animating keeping track of all the keys for all the nested switch layers. Just wanted to mention that.
-vern
Create the skeleton just the way you want. Bind each PARENT switch to the appropriate bone. The nested or sub switch group layers will take care of themselves. They are inside the bound switch so they do whatever that one is doing.
To have sub control of the switch layers to say, bend an arm at the elbow you would need bones in the switch.
Yes, there can be issues with bones in switch layers due to the changing shapes of the layer it is moving but you can actually have more than one set of bones in a switch if needed. For example if a layer in a switch is a certain shape draw the bones over it to control it. If another layer in the same switch is completely different draw ANOTHER set of bones to control THAT layer. Use bone offset so they all line up properly.
When you animate and you choose different switch layers then just use the different bones to move them.
This is a very complex set up by the way. Both the original you are working on AND the one I described using multiple bones. It can get quite confusing while animating keeping track of all the keys for all the nested switch layers. Just wanted to mention that.
-vern
In addition to what vern said, you could simplify your character a lot and make your further life less miserable ...
You should have only one switch layer for the head and put everything which is the same view (head, hair, eyes, mouths) into a sub folder inside the switch layer. The same goes for "body" and "torso" (which are in fact synonymous), and for arms and hands. A setup like this would be something like:
Main bone
> head switch
> > front view group/bone layer
> > > hair
> > > eyebrows
> > > eyes
> > > mouth
> > side view group/bone layer
> > > hair
> > > eyebrows
> > > eyes
> > > mouth
> > 45° view group/bone layer
> > > hair
> > > eyebrows
> > > eyes
> > > mouth
... and so on. You get the principle.
It is a matter of what movements are needed for a scene to decide where to put the arms. Sometimes they are inside the body layer, because they have to fit to the different views. Sometimes they are on the same level as the body, but have to be adjusted everytime the body switches view.
You should have only one switch layer for the head and put everything which is the same view (head, hair, eyes, mouths) into a sub folder inside the switch layer. The same goes for "body" and "torso" (which are in fact synonymous), and for arms and hands. A setup like this would be something like:
Main bone
> head switch
> > front view group/bone layer
> > > hair
> > > eyebrows
> > > eyes
> > > mouth
> > side view group/bone layer
> > > hair
> > > eyebrows
> > > eyes
> > > mouth
> > 45° view group/bone layer
> > > hair
> > > eyebrows
> > > eyes
> > > mouth
... and so on. You get the principle.
It is a matter of what movements are needed for a scene to decide where to put the arms. Sometimes they are inside the body layer, because they have to fit to the different views. Sometimes they are on the same level as the body, but have to be adjusted everytime the body switches view.
Ok I thought many different ways of setting up this character and of course would like to thank Vern~ and Slowtiger for help.
....But, as Vern said, this is too complex, and unfortunately I don't know different ways of setting up characters except just working with onionskin and drawing frame for frame but this wastes too much time, I'd like to know an easier way which makes all the movements possible in different views. Or maybe I should first design a character in a 3d modeling program and import to anime studio? :S
If anyone of you managed to find ways how to do it easier just let me know
/Sorry for bothering with so many questions
....But, as Vern said, this is too complex, and unfortunately I don't know different ways of setting up characters except just working with onionskin and drawing frame for frame but this wastes too much time, I'd like to know an easier way which makes all the movements possible in different views. Or maybe I should first design a character in a 3d modeling program and import to anime studio? :S
If anyone of you managed to find ways how to do it easier just let me know
/Sorry for bothering with so many questions
Slowtiger's suggestion of putting EVERYTHING in a switch is a great idea for quickly and easily changing the figure. Of course if you ever want to use a leg of one view and the body at another... <sigh>
In my opinion the best way to do this is to use bones and not use switches.
I did a test file recently of just the silhouette of a figure and boned it so I could figure out the best way to change the shapes of the body with bones for viewing at any angle.
I noticed that depending on the detail and realism needed the body shapes don't change drastically and I could change, say a leg, from a front view to a side veiw by moving/rotating a couple of bones. I could save that simple bone motion as an action and load it any time.
(Two images of the same leg. This file is a "test" file for experimenting so it isn't completed or perfect. the elbow joints aren't "tweaked".)
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/foru ... leton.anme
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/foru ... g_turn.mov
------------
Another possible solution would be to do three VERSIONS of the character, front, side, 3/4. Don't bother with "morphing" for each just do your final editing so the turn isn't seen. Or make the effort to produce turns that could be "reused" so you only do them once and use them over and over in an action.
One thing that I suppose disappoints me sometimes is this desire for everything to be "easy" and "quick". "Easy" is relative I think. If "easy" were on a scale of 1-10 how easy? 3? 6? 10? Sometimes it isn't easy. It depends on what you think is easy. Your desire for a character that can turn is not "easy" to start with. So, you have to make more effort. A simpler style with a front and side view would be "easy".
-vern
In my opinion the best way to do this is to use bones and not use switches.
I did a test file recently of just the silhouette of a figure and boned it so I could figure out the best way to change the shapes of the body with bones for viewing at any angle.
I noticed that depending on the detail and realism needed the body shapes don't change drastically and I could change, say a leg, from a front view to a side veiw by moving/rotating a couple of bones. I could save that simple bone motion as an action and load it any time.
(Two images of the same leg. This file is a "test" file for experimenting so it isn't completed or perfect. the elbow joints aren't "tweaked".)
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/foru ... leton.anme
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/foru ... g_turn.mov
------------
Another possible solution would be to do three VERSIONS of the character, front, side, 3/4. Don't bother with "morphing" for each just do your final editing so the turn isn't seen. Or make the effort to produce turns that could be "reused" so you only do them once and use them over and over in an action.
One thing that I suppose disappoints me sometimes is this desire for everything to be "easy" and "quick". "Easy" is relative I think. If "easy" were on a scale of 1-10 how easy? 3? 6? 10? Sometimes it isn't easy. It depends on what you think is easy. Your desire for a character that can turn is not "easy" to start with. So, you have to make more effort. A simpler style with a front and side view would be "easy".
-vern
@ Fizwig, thanks but I was searching for the whole body turns, I saw this tutorial weeks ago. For example I am looking for something that changes the view of the arms and legs during the animation to make it look a bit more like "3D".
@ Vern, ye what I ment with "easier way" wasn't directly ment to be easy (without much effort), the point was to find a better and a more professional way of doing this, so that my turns can look smoother and interactive. Thanks your test files helped me a lot, though if I draw much details on the thing that I wanna rotate I doubt its gonna work correctly. But the way you mentioned for producing turns that I can "reuse" that means I have to use switch layers again. Well, its not a big deal for me to use switches, I just want to find a correct way how I can do this, and the main thing is if "I CAN". All what I wanted is to make sure if there should be new ways to try, because I doubt too much on my ideas, so I thought I could lend some ideas from more experienced people since I am a newbie.
Again thanks a lot, and have a nice day guys
@ Vern, ye what I ment with "easier way" wasn't directly ment to be easy (without much effort), the point was to find a better and a more professional way of doing this, so that my turns can look smoother and interactive. Thanks your test files helped me a lot, though if I draw much details on the thing that I wanna rotate I doubt its gonna work correctly. But the way you mentioned for producing turns that I can "reuse" that means I have to use switch layers again. Well, its not a big deal for me to use switches, I just want to find a correct way how I can do this, and the main thing is if "I CAN". All what I wanted is to make sure if there should be new ways to try, because I doubt too much on my ideas, so I thought I could lend some ideas from more experienced people since I am a newbie.
Again thanks a lot, and have a nice day guys
Galanx,
I using DKs method to work out a whole body turn. It's not done yet, but here's what I have so far: http://fiziwig.com/anim/index08.php
--gary
I using DKs method to work out a whole body turn. It's not done yet, but here's what I have so far: http://fiziwig.com/anim/index08.php
--gary