Moho Forum

Hey everyone!

So I have a question. I'm trying to recreate a toon boom rig from a youtube video in moho. I think it can mostly be done, but I have a question about how to achieve an equivalent effect. In toon boom, you can take two shapes on different 'layers' and then put them together in way where wherever the shapes meet, the strokes are removed, leaving the rest of the strokes intact. Check out the video below for an example.

https://youtu.be/65-WnwT6658?si=kSBwWtpZamS9MBLH&t=5513

In moho, I know you could group two layers and add a stroke in the group render settings, but then it's limited to the stroke settings in the group settings panel. Or you could make, say, 2 layers with the fills in front, and then 2 reference layers behind with the strokes, but then the strokes are effectively cut in half, which can be compensated for, but it is a bit of a pain.

Are there any other, more effective or simpler ways to achieve this effect? This is actually a question I've had in my head for some time even before encountering this Toon Boom effect.

Anyway, thanks in advance for your advice and answers!

-Jim

At first read through, this sounds similar to Moho's patch layers? Have you looked into those?

(sorry, not on a computer with Moho installed so I can't link directly to it in the manual, so, here's a robotically narrated tutorial video instead)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7c9vN8qtro

Oh yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for, I think.

Thanks Alan!

Replicating Auto-Patches (and masking/cutters in general) in the sophisticated way Toon Boom does is pretty hard without Nodes. It can work here and there with a patch layer but for the example shown with the jaw attaching to a skull, i would now suggest trying to do it with liquid shapes. That could work great and i even saw a quick example of that in the Moho 14 trailer.

Depending on how many other things there are in the layer, one of the blending modes under layer properties can do this as well (not at animation computer right now, hard to say which).

Omigosh, the new liquid shapes are everything that I need and more. Awesome! Came out right in time, I guess!

Also, this liquid shapes feature is something I always dreamed of an app like illustrator adding.

I'm trying out rigging in Moho after rigging in ToonBoom for 10 years. It's a learning curve. I was running into the problem of patch layer. Then find out when patch layer is inside a mask group, you need to render to see it's working.

cherrytomato wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:47 am I'm trying out rigging in Moho after rigging in ToonBoom for 10 years. It's a learning curve. I was running into the problem of patch layer. Then find out when patch layer is inside a mask group, you need to render to see it's working.

When I use Patch layers, I don't need to render to see the effect. If I set-up the Patch correctly, the stroke vanishes in the workspace under the "patch." I'm guessing you have a setting turned off.

jayfaker wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 9:33 pm Omigosh, the new liquid shapes are everything that I need and more. Awesome! Came out right in time, I guess!

I love Liquid Shapes but one limitation with it is that all the shapes need to be in a single layer. If your segments are separated into layer, you still need to use a Patch layer or a masking setup that emulates a Patch layer. This latter technique requires more work than a Patch layer but it's also more flexible because it works with groups and it's not limited to a circular shape (you can use any shape you like.) I posted some info about the technique and an example file here...

https://lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 44#p203944

Here's a link to the original discussion where the 'Patchoid' technique was developed. The images are broken there, but I believe there's more useful info at that thread...

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=32275&hilit=patch+layer

Hoptoad wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:23 pm

cherrytomato wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:47 am I'm trying out rigging in Moho after rigging in ToonBoom for 10 years. It's a learning curve. I was running into the problem of patch layer. Then find out when patch layer is inside a mask group, you need to render to see it's working.

When I use Patch layers, I don't need to render to see the effect. If I set-up the Patch correctly, the stroke vanishes in the workspace under the "patch." I'm guessing you have a setting turned off.

If the group is not a mask group, it shows without render. If it's in the mask group, it needs to render to see.

Yeah, I saw some weirdness when working with the Patch layer in 14.0 over the weekend. In my test, the patch wasn't completely erasing the strokes for the display preview but it rendered fine. I'm assuming this feature hasn't been updated to work correctly with the new display engine yet.

I'll let the devs know.

cherrytomato wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:06 pm If the group is not a mask group, it shows without render. If it's in the mask group, it needs to render to see.

I just tested a mask group with 3 vector layers and a Patch layer and the Patch worked properly in the workspace without needing to render.

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:34 pm Yeah, I saw some weirdness when working with the Patch layer in 14.0 over the weekend. In my test, the patch wasn't completely erasing the strokes for the display preview but it rendered fine. I'm assuming this feature hasn't been updated to work correctly with the new display engine yet.

I'll let the devs know.

I didn't see any weirdness (Moho 14, Mac OS). It was a quick test with simple shapes. This is the structure.

> Masking Group
>> Vector Layer 1: Mask this Layer
>> Patch - Layer 1
>> Vector Layer 2: Don't Mask this Layer
>> Vector Layer 3: Add to Mask

Ah, ok, thanks for clarifying.

I must be seeing a different issue then. I need to let the Devs know about a new display error I'm seeing with the Patch Layer in 14, and I thought it might be related to this topic.

Hoptoad wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:52 am

cherrytomato wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:06 pm If the group is not a mask group, it shows without render. If it's in the mask group, it needs to render to see.

I just tested a mask group with 3 vector layers and a Patch layer and the Patch worked properly in the workspace without needing to render.

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:34 pm Yeah, I saw some weirdness when working with the Patch layer in 14.0 over the weekend. In my test, the patch wasn't completely erasing the strokes for the display preview but it rendered fine. I'm assuming this feature hasn't been updated to work correctly with the new display engine yet.

I'll let the devs know.

I didn't see any weirdness (Moho 14, Mac OS). It was a quick test with simple shapes. This is the structure.

> Masking Group
>> Vector Layer 1: Mask this Layer
>> Patch - Layer 1
>> Vector Layer 2: Don't Mask this Layer
>> Vector Layer 3: Add to Mask

I tried yours in a new file, it shows in the display preview. In my character file, it still not showing in the display unless I change the mask group to none.

I mentioned my different experience because the developers might not see the results you are seeing.

I hope somebody figures-out what's going on! Seeing the Patch layer working live in the workspace is nice.