Ok me and my cousin are in the early stages for our cartoon and want to lay down the audio before actually starting the animation process. Does any one know what type of recording equipment/software that is decent and needed. Also what are some lip-syncing techniques that can be used???
Thanks for any help
Tommy
Help with audio needed!!!
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
-
marchdigital
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:41 am
Hey Tommy,
I'd say the most important thing is to get a decent microphone first.
When I see some perfectly lovely animations (many of which are in flash, by my experience) I can just tell that many are using the cheap plastic microphone that came with their computer.
Don't do that, please.
These microphones have very limited tonal range, and the distort way too easily. A telephone handset carries a better vocal signal than these cheap condenser mics.
I'm not saying spend $600 on a Sennheiser (spelling?), but if you're serious a $30-60 dollar mike will make miraculous differences in your animations enjoyability. (Even a $12 dollar Radio Sh@ck mike would be better than what comes with most computers).
Frankly, a Pop-Filter or extra foam insulation for the mike is also good (keeps P's and B's from sounding too much like explosions in the mix... but the software can help with this too, it's just better and easier long term when you have a good, clean signal upfront.)
In my opinion, sound comes first and is just as important as the visuals... if you can't listen and enjoy the story before you draw the first frame, then the audio needs help and the visuals should wait.
Other than that... watch your recording levels in your software. Whether you use SoundForge or say Cooledit, you can tell when you're "in the red" in your recording... and red is very bad, very ugly sounding. If it's "too hot", then you'll annoy and wear upon the ear of your audience.
Both SoundForge and Cooledit come with some sort of Vocal Compression filter... I'd say at least half of the animation out there needs compression... (That keeps the volume nice and steady). The animation I just did for a competition needs it, but we turned it in about 40 seconds before time ran out... so we had to deal with it.
Hope that helps, and be glad to lend a hand in the future. I'm not an experienced animator, but I've been recording audio and music semi-professionally for about 9 years... and I'm always happy to share what I've learned from my mistakes too numerous to count.
I'd say the most important thing is to get a decent microphone first.
When I see some perfectly lovely animations (many of which are in flash, by my experience) I can just tell that many are using the cheap plastic microphone that came with their computer.
Don't do that, please.
These microphones have very limited tonal range, and the distort way too easily. A telephone handset carries a better vocal signal than these cheap condenser mics.
I'm not saying spend $600 on a Sennheiser (spelling?), but if you're serious a $30-60 dollar mike will make miraculous differences in your animations enjoyability. (Even a $12 dollar Radio Sh@ck mike would be better than what comes with most computers).
Frankly, a Pop-Filter or extra foam insulation for the mike is also good (keeps P's and B's from sounding too much like explosions in the mix... but the software can help with this too, it's just better and easier long term when you have a good, clean signal upfront.)
In my opinion, sound comes first and is just as important as the visuals... if you can't listen and enjoy the story before you draw the first frame, then the audio needs help and the visuals should wait.
Other than that... watch your recording levels in your software. Whether you use SoundForge or say Cooledit, you can tell when you're "in the red" in your recording... and red is very bad, very ugly sounding. If it's "too hot", then you'll annoy and wear upon the ear of your audience.
Both SoundForge and Cooledit come with some sort of Vocal Compression filter... I'd say at least half of the animation out there needs compression... (That keeps the volume nice and steady). The animation I just did for a competition needs it, but we turned it in about 40 seconds before time ran out... so we had to deal with it.
Hope that helps, and be glad to lend a hand in the future. I'm not an experienced animator, but I've been recording audio and music semi-professionally for about 9 years... and I'm always happy to share what I've learned from my mistakes too numerous to count.
"T"
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
Can you please talk about this a little more? What does the filter do? I'm using Audacity on linux (audacity.sourceforge.net). I don't see that particular filter listed - could it have another name?T wrote:Both SoundForge and Cooledit come with some sort of Vocal Compression filter... I'd say at least half of the animation out there needs compression... (That keeps the volume nice and steady).
Thanks!
$12 dollar Radio Sh@ck mike / Soundforge...Nice combination... Cheap hardware and expensive software, unless you have an illegal copy which wouldn't be right of course.
Audacity can analyse audio and create a noise profile and can eliminate that noise from the file. Then use the normaliser and you're pretty nuch done if the mic is somewhat decent and just as important, the environment. No outside noise, dogs barking etc. or a hollow echo room.
Experiment and good luck,
Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
Audacity can analyse audio and create a noise profile and can eliminate that noise from the file. Then use the normaliser and you're pretty nuch done if the mic is somewhat decent and just as important, the environment. No outside noise, dogs barking etc. or a hollow echo room.
Experiment and good luck,
Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
Tommy:
Think of it this way, when you speak your voice has a wide range of volumes, from softly spoken whisper to bellowing loud voice. This is great in an ambient environment like a room, but in headphones it can be bad.
Vocal Compression basically just squeezes the volume range into a tighter, more even variance. Depending upon how you use it, it may increase the volume of the quietest parts or lower the volume of the loudest parts, resulting in a more balanced audio level.
Now, too much compression can be bad too... You don't want to sound lifeless, with no volume changes... takes away your ability to express the full range of emotions. But it's better than the alternative, which is forcing your audience to turn up the volumes for the quiet parts and yank of their headphones during the rest. I'm sure you've seen movies like this.
[Edit: Don't know if Cooledit still has this, but they used to have a demo that was great... all the features worked, but only like 1 at a time, would have to restart it to use another feature. Still great though]
nobudget: LOL! You're right, putting a $12 dollar mike with Soundforge is definitely a waste of SoundForge's time... but my point was it's BETTER than trying to record with that weird white stick-microphone that comes with some PC's.
I have a couple of Shure Beta Green series mikes that I use for some things that aren't too pricy, but do a fine job. Not sure if they still exist or the prices.
Think of it this way, when you speak your voice has a wide range of volumes, from softly spoken whisper to bellowing loud voice. This is great in an ambient environment like a room, but in headphones it can be bad.
Vocal Compression basically just squeezes the volume range into a tighter, more even variance. Depending upon how you use it, it may increase the volume of the quietest parts or lower the volume of the loudest parts, resulting in a more balanced audio level.
Now, too much compression can be bad too... You don't want to sound lifeless, with no volume changes... takes away your ability to express the full range of emotions. But it's better than the alternative, which is forcing your audience to turn up the volumes for the quiet parts and yank of their headphones during the rest. I'm sure you've seen movies like this.
[Edit: Don't know if Cooledit still has this, but they used to have a demo that was great... all the features worked, but only like 1 at a time, would have to restart it to use another feature. Still great though]
nobudget: LOL! You're right, putting a $12 dollar mike with Soundforge is definitely a waste of SoundForge's time... but my point was it's BETTER than trying to record with that weird white stick-microphone that comes with some PC's.
I have a couple of Shure Beta Green series mikes that I use for some things that aren't too pricy, but do a fine job. Not sure if they still exist or the prices.
"T"
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
Yes "T",
I understand your point, just wanted to clarify. Quite often people talk about buying hardware and software is just a question of where to download and where to get the serial number... People invest is thousands of $ in hardware but copy a $100 piece of important software.
I think most people active in this forum don't think that way, I guess most here like to support small companies like Lost Marble so we're in good company...right?
Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
PS. I pity the fool who messes with T!
I understand your point, just wanted to clarify. Quite often people talk about buying hardware and software is just a question of where to download and where to get the serial number... People invest is thousands of $ in hardware but copy a $100 piece of important software.
I think most people active in this forum don't think that way, I guess most here like to support small companies like Lost Marble so we're in good company...right?
Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
PS. I pity the fool who messes with T!
Oh! Sorry nobudget, I'm the one who missed the point. LOL!
I agree totally. When people complain (rightfully) that bandwidth leechers and copyright violators are stealing their artwork, it kind of rings a bit hollow if they created that lovely work on stolen software.
Kind of like a professional theif reporting that someone has burglarized his warehouse of stolen goods... er, maybe not. That's a little harsh.
BTW, love your work on your site. Good stuff, and inspiringly fun and funny.
I agree totally. When people complain (rightfully) that bandwidth leechers and copyright violators are stealing their artwork, it kind of rings a bit hollow if they created that lovely work on stolen software.
Kind of like a professional theif reporting that someone has burglarized his warehouse of stolen goods... er, maybe not. That's a little harsh.
BTW, love your work on your site. Good stuff, and inspiringly fun and funny.
"T"
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
Thanks, and like you once said: "Be somebody or be somebodys fool"
...Or are you another mister "T"?
Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
...Or are you another mister "T"?
Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
Nahhh... I couldn't hold a candle to Mr. T
It's just "T". T is just a nickname for Toxey, which most people assume is a nickname itself.
It's just "T". T is just a nickname for Toxey, which most people assume is a nickname itself.
"T"
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
If you say so LOL ... you can't imagine the flak I got after Troma decided to call him Toxie (which is the most common way to spell my name wrong).
"T"
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
------------------------------------------------
One who makes no mistakes, never makes anything.
www.flyingmcdavidbros.com
If I were you (which I'm not) I'd make sure to get some copies of part 4: "Citizen Toxie". In a couple of decades just tell your grandchildren that movie was about you and your heroic acts (and tell 'em you skin cleared up). If your last name happens to be Kane...now that would boggle the mind!
Hmmm, too off-topic? Well, the Toxic Avenger was renamed "Toxie" for the cartoon series "The Toxic Crusaders", a short lived but well-respected childrens' show. Cartoon series/Animation/Moho and back on-topic!
Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
Hmmm, too off-topic? Well, the Toxic Avenger was renamed "Toxie" for the cartoon series "The Toxic Crusaders", a short lived but well-respected childrens' show. Cartoon series/Animation/Moho and back on-topic!
Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
Lucky for you i'm kind of doing abit of Music Tech on my music course at the moment so i'll give you a low-down on different software packages, mics and other equipment you'll need to make recording a breeze.
First let me explain one thing, MIDI. MIDI should be inbuilt on your computers sound card, or somewhere along the lines. MIDI emulates instruments (quite badly) which can be used in creation of music and other noises. So MIDI is always a good function.
Software:
There are currently loads of software out on the market today, sequencers and wave editing. Yes it does mean breaking the wallet abit (or Kazaa). Under each title I'll give a selection of different software, current prices and ease of use.
-All-In-One Packages (Sequencers)-
Cubase - There are a range of Packages for this product:
SE - (Educational edition) £69.00
Extremely entry level, gives you basic recording and MIDI functions, not that good and but quite easy. MultiTracks.
SL - £229.00
Very good audio package, lots of audio functions but does cut out alot of MIDI functions and other tools. Multitracks
SX(3) - £469.00
Heres the top end tool, Very good for MIDI but using for audio can be a bit of a bugger... but once you've mastered it, lifes good. Multitracks.
Tracktion - £50.00
Very simple to use multitracking software with audio and MIDI abilities. I recommend this package as its cheap and very simple to use.
Ableton Live - £239.00
Very confusing interface, but does have a few powerful features. Multitracks Audio and Midi
Cakewalk Sonar 4 - (studio edition) £199.00
Very good software for multitracking audio, ots of effects and enhancements which soeone could find useful. I Recommend this one aswell if you have the money. Multitracks Audio and Midi (but very good for audio especially)
Sound Editing:
These packages are used to edit either a 2 channel (stereo) or 1 channel (mono) Audio file of different sorts.
Wavelab - £399.00
Haven't used this in a while but apparently has 5.1/7.1 capabilities.... Thats crazy. Anyway, has some useful features and tools etc. You can record a sound source direct into this aswell.
SoundForge (7.0) - £285.00
Very powerful and easy to use. Has a recording funtion, effects and everything else you want and if you don't have it, install some plug-ins.
What should i get then? Tracktion. You won't regret it and especially at that price.
Microphones
In this section i will talk about microphones which are great to use for recording and at a sensible price (all prices below £150). Also there are two types of mics Dynamic and Condeser mics. The difference between the two microphones is purely in their frequency responce and the better quality of audio each one produces as an end result. So dynamics are great slap around allrounders, while condensers mainly are used for a certain application, hence making that condenser mic better for the job then dynamics. I will also be refering to Frequency responce alot. This is basically want type of sound it can pick up so if i say 30 - 20,000hz, this means that mic can pick up alot of low end (30hz) while still being able to pick up alot of high end (20,000hz). So to clear things up 30hz= Low/bass 20,000=High/Treble.
Condensor mics also require power, so you'll need a mixing desk with "phantom power (48V)" on it to power these bitches.
Shure SM57 - £69.99 (Dynamic)
These are instrument mics, but because of their good frequency responce (40 to 15,000Hz) it means it can do alot. It doesn't have a pop sheild thats because it can pick up instrument sound better. Although not exactly voice freq range, i'm suggesting it because you may want to make a sample of something and because of this mics responce it will be able to pick up that sound better (like a kick drum for instance with out making it sound crap).
Shure SM58 - £69.99 (Dynamic)
These are designed for voice applications and are standard because of their better made pop sheild cone bit. With a huge freq responce (50-15,000Hz) it can pick up alot of vocal range. With these mics i tend to notice that they pick up maybe abit too much low end, making it sound sloppy, but in a decent sound editing program, this can be cleared up. Recommend these.
Samson CO3 - £59.00 (Condensor)
These a good mics. They have a polority changer so you can pick up sound from infront, infront and behind and everywhere in a circle. Very good mics with little distortion. This mic will require a better pop-sheild.
AKG C 2000 B - £109.00
This is another good mic. Tight frequecny responce (30 - 20,000Hz) so you vocals won't sound flabby (like the sm58's do). Low distortion rate and will give you a golden sound. I recommend this mic.
What should i get? Shure SM58. Because it can do voice and many other applications. And you don't need to power it. But do get a pop sheild for it though.
Whats a Pop Sheild?
A pop sheild is a piece of mesh which you place about an inche or two away from the mics to help prevent blasts of air from words with "SSS" and "PPS" (Like "Pie" and Sophie") leading to everything sounding crap.
Using your mics.
Now that you've got your mic, nows the time to use it.
First of all, open up you music recording software and set up the track you want to record on.
Now set up you mic. You'll think to yourself "how do i get my mic from here into my sound card?" Simple, buy a cable converter. You see on your soundcard a jack where you can input you mic, but because you have a 3pin XLR cable, it won't fit, so check out audio web sites and places like radio shack for a converter to a headphone jack (as thats what they tend to be on a sound card).
You are going to want to get the sound to go into the sound card at a workable soundlevel, so keep speaking into the mic and try and set the "gain" or "Input" level to be in the yellow area. Do not put the gain up into the red area as this will distort your sound.
Record your sound.
If its distorting, turn down the input gain or move away from the mic. Usually speaking too close to a mic can internally overload it and cause it to distort.
Now that you have a recorded sound you'll notice that it leaps in different volumes now and again. We are now going to use "compression." Within your program find an effect or process called "Compressor" or "Dynamics."
Upon opening these you'll be faced with alot of controls. Theres a control called threshold, attack, release and make up gain/volume. Threshold is the area of volume the effect works, Attack is how fast the effect works and release is how long it takes for the effect to turn off. You'll also see another control called Ratio, this sets how hard the threshold will be, so lower ratio will make less difference, while a large ratio will make a noticable difference.
I recommend you play around with this for a bit as it can take some time getting used to, also listen to how it changes the sound. For the time being lets say you have the controlls set to Threshold: -20db Attack: 10ms Release: 235 and Ratio: 2.00:1. Like i said play around with the ratio and threshold for a bit.
Hopefully that sould set you up good, the compression will knock down differences in volume and adding effects and other bits and pieces is entirely up to you.
Hope this helps. I've written so much..... never again.
First let me explain one thing, MIDI. MIDI should be inbuilt on your computers sound card, or somewhere along the lines. MIDI emulates instruments (quite badly) which can be used in creation of music and other noises. So MIDI is always a good function.
Software:
There are currently loads of software out on the market today, sequencers and wave editing. Yes it does mean breaking the wallet abit (or Kazaa). Under each title I'll give a selection of different software, current prices and ease of use.
-All-In-One Packages (Sequencers)-
Cubase - There are a range of Packages for this product:
SE - (Educational edition) £69.00
Extremely entry level, gives you basic recording and MIDI functions, not that good and but quite easy. MultiTracks.
SL - £229.00
Very good audio package, lots of audio functions but does cut out alot of MIDI functions and other tools. Multitracks
SX(3) - £469.00
Heres the top end tool, Very good for MIDI but using for audio can be a bit of a bugger... but once you've mastered it, lifes good. Multitracks.
Tracktion - £50.00
Very simple to use multitracking software with audio and MIDI abilities. I recommend this package as its cheap and very simple to use.
Ableton Live - £239.00
Very confusing interface, but does have a few powerful features. Multitracks Audio and Midi
Cakewalk Sonar 4 - (studio edition) £199.00
Very good software for multitracking audio, ots of effects and enhancements which soeone could find useful. I Recommend this one aswell if you have the money. Multitracks Audio and Midi (but very good for audio especially)
Sound Editing:
These packages are used to edit either a 2 channel (stereo) or 1 channel (mono) Audio file of different sorts.
Wavelab - £399.00
Haven't used this in a while but apparently has 5.1/7.1 capabilities.... Thats crazy. Anyway, has some useful features and tools etc. You can record a sound source direct into this aswell.
SoundForge (7.0) - £285.00
Very powerful and easy to use. Has a recording funtion, effects and everything else you want and if you don't have it, install some plug-ins.
What should i get then? Tracktion. You won't regret it and especially at that price.
Microphones
In this section i will talk about microphones which are great to use for recording and at a sensible price (all prices below £150). Also there are two types of mics Dynamic and Condeser mics. The difference between the two microphones is purely in their frequency responce and the better quality of audio each one produces as an end result. So dynamics are great slap around allrounders, while condensers mainly are used for a certain application, hence making that condenser mic better for the job then dynamics. I will also be refering to Frequency responce alot. This is basically want type of sound it can pick up so if i say 30 - 20,000hz, this means that mic can pick up alot of low end (30hz) while still being able to pick up alot of high end (20,000hz). So to clear things up 30hz= Low/bass 20,000=High/Treble.
Condensor mics also require power, so you'll need a mixing desk with "phantom power (48V)" on it to power these bitches.
Shure SM57 - £69.99 (Dynamic)
These are instrument mics, but because of their good frequency responce (40 to 15,000Hz) it means it can do alot. It doesn't have a pop sheild thats because it can pick up instrument sound better. Although not exactly voice freq range, i'm suggesting it because you may want to make a sample of something and because of this mics responce it will be able to pick up that sound better (like a kick drum for instance with out making it sound crap).
Shure SM58 - £69.99 (Dynamic)
These are designed for voice applications and are standard because of their better made pop sheild cone bit. With a huge freq responce (50-15,000Hz) it can pick up alot of vocal range. With these mics i tend to notice that they pick up maybe abit too much low end, making it sound sloppy, but in a decent sound editing program, this can be cleared up. Recommend these.
Samson CO3 - £59.00 (Condensor)
These a good mics. They have a polority changer so you can pick up sound from infront, infront and behind and everywhere in a circle. Very good mics with little distortion. This mic will require a better pop-sheild.
AKG C 2000 B - £109.00
This is another good mic. Tight frequecny responce (30 - 20,000Hz) so you vocals won't sound flabby (like the sm58's do). Low distortion rate and will give you a golden sound. I recommend this mic.
What should i get? Shure SM58. Because it can do voice and many other applications. And you don't need to power it. But do get a pop sheild for it though.
Whats a Pop Sheild?
A pop sheild is a piece of mesh which you place about an inche or two away from the mics to help prevent blasts of air from words with "SSS" and "PPS" (Like "Pie" and Sophie") leading to everything sounding crap.
Using your mics.
Now that you've got your mic, nows the time to use it.
First of all, open up you music recording software and set up the track you want to record on.
Now set up you mic. You'll think to yourself "how do i get my mic from here into my sound card?" Simple, buy a cable converter. You see on your soundcard a jack where you can input you mic, but because you have a 3pin XLR cable, it won't fit, so check out audio web sites and places like radio shack for a converter to a headphone jack (as thats what they tend to be on a sound card).
You are going to want to get the sound to go into the sound card at a workable soundlevel, so keep speaking into the mic and try and set the "gain" or "Input" level to be in the yellow area. Do not put the gain up into the red area as this will distort your sound.
Record your sound.
If its distorting, turn down the input gain or move away from the mic. Usually speaking too close to a mic can internally overload it and cause it to distort.
Now that you have a recorded sound you'll notice that it leaps in different volumes now and again. We are now going to use "compression." Within your program find an effect or process called "Compressor" or "Dynamics."
Upon opening these you'll be faced with alot of controls. Theres a control called threshold, attack, release and make up gain/volume. Threshold is the area of volume the effect works, Attack is how fast the effect works and release is how long it takes for the effect to turn off. You'll also see another control called Ratio, this sets how hard the threshold will be, so lower ratio will make less difference, while a large ratio will make a noticable difference.
I recommend you play around with this for a bit as it can take some time getting used to, also listen to how it changes the sound. For the time being lets say you have the controlls set to Threshold: -20db Attack: 10ms Release: 235 and Ratio: 2.00:1. Like i said play around with the ratio and threshold for a bit.
Hopefully that sould set you up good, the compression will knock down differences in volume and adding effects and other bits and pieces is entirely up to you.
Hope this helps. I've written so much..... never again.
--Scott
cribble.net
cribble.net
Also one last thing before i go:
Audio compression, another big topic which i'll wittle down.
If you're doing a flash movie, and want to compress the balls off it, but still want your audio to sound good, change the frequency at which you save it as. So within a wave editor you usually save as: 44,000hz 16 bit save it more along the lines of 32,000hz or 22,050hz. Because you've taken away more high and low end it doesn't crap when you compress it as MP3 later on. So now you can export a flash movie with a MP3 compression of 48Kbits without it sounding awful and mushy.
Hope thats clear enough.
Audio compression, another big topic which i'll wittle down.
If you're doing a flash movie, and want to compress the balls off it, but still want your audio to sound good, change the frequency at which you save it as. So within a wave editor you usually save as: 44,000hz 16 bit save it more along the lines of 32,000hz or 22,050hz. Because you've taken away more high and low end it doesn't crap when you compress it as MP3 later on. So now you can export a flash movie with a MP3 compression of 48Kbits without it sounding awful and mushy.
Hope thats clear enough.
--Scott
cribble.net
cribble.net