making smartbones makes my character vanish in action panel

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kphgraphics
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making smartbones makes my character vanish in action panel

Post by kphgraphics »

When making a smart bone why doe my character disappear each time i make an action. For example i am rigging an arm, the bone name is B2 that i want to make a smart bone, so i click on new action name it B2 once i hit ok my character vanishes, any ideals why.

Thanks kevin ver. Pro 9.5

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Greenlaw
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Greenlaw »

I'm having this problem too. Curiously, it only happens in certain scene files and I can't figure out why. Anyway, to make the artwork appear, I have to touch the rotate bone tool slightly. I'm not sure this works all the time though...I think I ran into a case earlier where I couldn't make the image appear until I exited the SmartBone creation mode, making it a bit useless in that situation.

At first I thought this was a graphics card or driver issue but I'm seeing it on two different computers, one with an Nvidia card and the other with ATI, and both with the very latest drivers. Since you're also experiencing this problem, I'm calling this a bug. I'm a little surprised not to hear about it from more users though. If it is a bug, I hope it can get fixed soon--SmartBone is just too useful to let go. :)

G.
Bossco
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Bossco »

Does it render though?
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kphgraphics
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by kphgraphics »

Bossco wrote:Does it render though?
Not until i can get it to appear, exiting in and out of action main and action i made may work, or click on a layer in the right panel and sliding it to switch layer order and letting go just before it switches seem to bring it up. When it does appear the image some times is slight off from image on main time line so the smart bone will be way off and rig goes bad.

Bossco is the rig you are having problems with originally made in pro 9.5 mine was not i draw it in pro 7.
Last edited by kphgraphics on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kphgraphics
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by kphgraphics »

If i don't use smart bone rig works like it should.

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Greenlaw
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Greenlaw »

In my case, I'm working strictly in 9.5.

Here's some new info: Even though my problem described was specific to using SmartBones, now I find that the same issue happens in this scene when creating any Action. For example, I want to create a series of Morph Actions for a Group layer in this scene, and all the layers within the Group will disappear the second I create an Action. Other layers outside of that Group layer will remain visible. However, if I then drop a keyframe in each layer within that group by clicking once in the viewport, each of those layers will reappear and allow me to edit it. (My assumption is that the vector drawings are actually there, just not visible until I make a keyframe for that layer.)

Does that happen to other users? Sorry, I'm a fairly new user and this behavior is unexpected to me. It's strange to me because the disappearing layer behavior hasn't happened with other scenes. I don't think this scene is corrupted because it's actually been re-created a few times, almost from scratch while trying to figure out this problem. The only constant with the different 'test' versions in these has been that I'm using the same artwork. Now I'm thinking it must be something about the art that Anime Studio Pro doesn't like when creating actions, but they're just regular ASP vectors. I do have a bitmap (PNG) background painting, but the issue occurs even in versions of the scene where the BG painting has not been imported yet.

We have a deadline coming up in a few weeks, so I'll have to move on. This issue might not be a big deal because creating keyframes for each layer in the Group layer appears to be a workable 'workaround' but I'm a little concerned that there is more going on here on that might cause a problem down the line.

Hmm...it just occurred to me that the issue might only happen when I use a Group layer. I haven't used Group layers much yet, so I'm wondering, is it normal to have to keyframe every contained layer like this when using Actions for the Group? I think I've seen this happen in a test without the Group layer but right now I'm not 100% sure about that.

Hope to hear from more experienced users. Thanks in advance for any helpful advice or information.

G.
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kphgraphics
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by kphgraphics »

Greenlaw wrote:In my case, I'm working strictly in 9.5.

Here's some new info: Even though my problem described was specific to using SmartBones, now I find that the same issue happens in this scene when creating any Action. For example, I want to create a series of Morph Actions for a Group layer in this scene, and all the layers within the Group will disappear the second I create an Action. Other layers outside of that Group layer will remain visible. However, if I then drop a keyframe in each layer within that group by clicking once in the viewport, each of those layers will reappear and allow me to edit it. (My assumption is that the vector drawings are actually there, just not visible until I make a keyframe for that layer.)

Does that happen to other users? Sorry, I'm a fairly new user and this behavior is unexpected to me. It's strange to me because the disappearing layer behavior hasn't happened with other scenes. I don't think this scene is corrupted because it's actually been re-created a few times, almost from scratch while trying to figure out this problem. The only constant with the different 'test' versions in these has been that I'm using the same artwork. Now I'm thinking it must be something about the art that Anime Studio Pro doesn't like when creating actions, but they're just regular ASP vectors. I do have a bitmap (PNG) background painting, but the issue occurs even in versions of the scene where the BG painting has not been imported yet.

We have a deadline coming up in a few weeks, so I'll have to move on. This issue might not be a big deal because creating keyframes for each layer in the Group layer appears to be a workable 'workaround' but I'm a little concerned that there is more going on here on that might cause a problem down the line.

Hmm...it just occurred to me that the issue might only happen when I use a Group layer. I haven't used Group layers much yet, so I'm wondering, is it normal to have to keyframe every contained layer like this when using Actions for the Group? I think I've seen this happen in a test without the Group layer but right now I'm not 100% sure about that.

Hope to hear from more experienced users. Thanks in advance for any helpful advice or information.

G.
I was using Group layer also with a lot of the issues i have been having, and i usually don't use them in rigs, went back to original file i was working with rigged character with out using group layers, and it still vanishes when i click ok in action panel but once i get it to appear all points are where the should be so i can now use smart bones.
Oh yeah image only vanishes the first time i go to make a new action or smart bone, but once i get it to appear it comes up every time i go in or out of the action.
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Greenlaw
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Greenlaw »

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've only started using Group layers for the last few shots in our project, which was when I noticed this issue, so maybe there's something to that. Though, like you, I'm almost certain I've seen this in a version of the scene without the Group too. My guess is that using a Group layer doesn't cause the issue but it does make it more likely to happen.

In my current scene, I'm using a Group layer for the character's head, which had gotten more complicated than in previous scenes with this character, and the Group makes the scene easier to manage (I'm binding the head bone the Group, and rigging the head within the Group.) But maybe I should avoid using Groups until the next update--although, I'm not sure it's specifically Groups that cause the problem.

Sigh! I should move on for now and come back to this problem later. I have enough things about our production making me nuts already. :D

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Bossco
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Bossco »

kphgraphics wrote:
Bossco wrote:Does it render though?
Bossco is the rig you are having problems with originally made in pro 9.5 mine was not i draw it in pro 7.
I haven't got a problem with a rig of my own, I'm just trying to work out what your problem may be.


Just tried it out and the same happens to me.
It seems to be when you put your vector in a layer group it vanishes when you try to attach a smart bone.
However it's still there, because when you select the vector layer you can see the points. But it's just not visible and won't render.

If you start by grouping within a bone layer instead of a group layer there's no problem.
But if you try to convert your group layer to a bone layer it doesn't fix it and the problem doesn't go away.
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Greenlaw
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Greenlaw »

Thanks for looking into this! I'll keep your observations in mind when I come back to this problem. It sounds like it's an official bug since others can reproduce the problem.

BTW, I removed the Group from the scene and reconfigured the rig to work without it. I still get the disappearing graphics but it seems to be more stable as far as editing Action goes (after the vector image becomes visible I mean.) Yeah, I think I need to avoid Groups for now, at least within a rigged character.

G.
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Greenlaw
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Greenlaw »

Okay, I spent a little more time on this tonight (just can't leave well enough alone I guess.)

I'm not 100% sure but some of my issues maybe be related to how I'm using (or rather mis-using) bone layers. I've been experimenting with Flexi Binding vs. Region Binding, and Group Layer binding vs Layer Binding vs Point Binding, and Allow Nested Layer Control On vs. Off. This may sound obvious (as it should,) but I'm seeing profound differences in what happens downstream in a hierarchy with different settings. While I think I understand the general differences between these options, I'm still figuring out those differences when it comes to practical usage in actual production situations. Hopefully, that practical knowledge will arrive with experience.

In other words, because I haven't been a user for very long, it's hard for me to tell when an unexpected behavior is a bug or simply user error. Wish I could show specific examples of what's confusing me but that will have to wait a few weeks when we're done with this project. When we're finished, I think I'm going to be back with a lot of questions and examples. :)

G.
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Greenlaw
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Greenlaw »

Just a quick followup to my situation: thanks to this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ4j51P0uWA), I gained a much better understanding of Flexi-Binding and the Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding command. The latter feature helped me simplify the rig quite a bit, and as a result, I'm not seeing the vanishing vector layers when creating SmartBone Actions. (At least in intitial testing.)

Having so many ways to get essentially the same result has been confusing but thankfully it also seems to be one of ASP's great strengths. Thank goodness, I feel I can really move forward from this problem now. (And get some sleep.) :)

G.
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Greenlaw
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Greenlaw »

Whoops! Spoke too soon. I worked with the scene a little this morning and once again certain layers were vanishing when creating an Action, a Morph in this case. Curiously, creating a SmartBone works fine. Also, no Groups are involved in this version of the scene.

Since it's always the same layers that keep vanishing, as a quick test, I created a new vector layer and redrew one of the elements from scratch. With the redrawn layer, creating the Morph worked properly this time--the old drawing vanished but the redrawn version remained visible.

My theory now is that these particular elements somehow got corrupted and they all need to redrawn from scratch. Copying and pasting the art into new layers doesn't work, they need to be recreated from scratch. Luckily, this isn't too big a deal, at least with this character.

I'll try a test this afternoon with a SmartBone but I already suspect it will be fine. I'll do another quick test later today with more redrawn elements and with a Group involved. Will report what happens on the chance that this info is useful to others.

G.
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synthsin75
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by synthsin75 »

Here's the solution to disappearing vectors when creating actions: viewtopic.php?p=138793#p138793
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Greenlaw
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Re: making smartbones makes my character vanish in action pa

Post by Greenlaw »

Thanks for the tip. I actually checked that a few days ago and did find negative keys (even made a post about it in another thread.) I went through every layer multiple times and I'm almost certain I got rid of them all--at least I no longer see any indicator that there exist keys on the problem vectors.

Since nothing else is working (except for redrawing the vectors,) I'll check one more time just to be sure though. As you might have guessed, this is making me a little nuts. :)

G.
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