Has the internet content boom completey destroyed any hope we have of getting our animations commercially aired as independant animators? It seems to be that no-one is actively looking to purchase animated content from small independant studios any more. Have places like youtube and jibjab, where content is donated by the ton everyday, destroyed any hope we have of making a living out of our work? Have all our commercial broadcast avenues finally dried up? Id love to hear your thoughts.
Cheers
D.K
Animated Murmerings
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
If you look at what the current writer's strike is about the answer would be no in my opinion.
What the internet is doing now for "film" and animation content is the same thing it did in the past for small businesses trying to reach customers. It is giving the "small" unknown guys an opportunity to be exposed to hundreds of thousands if not millions of viewers.
The same rules apply to internet content as "commercially aired" programming... if it stinks no one watches it.
I remember hearing about an independent short film maker who was required to have his film shown in a theater to a specific number of paying customers in order to have his film qualify for the Oscar. So he rented a small theater, invited a bunch of people to watch his film. Even though he had already had thousands of viewers see it on the internet.
He said that his film shown on the internet reached 100,000+ people in just a few days compared to the few hundred people who saw it at theater over 3 days for 10 times the cost (theater rental, film transfer etc).
As an independent animator or film maker the internet is a great opportunity to be seen. Yes there is a lot of crap out there but the good stuff does rise to the top.
Only a small tiny percentage get rich and famous in the entertainment business. A tiny small amount. If your goal is to get rich you might be in the wrong business. I heard an interview with a film producer who said that if the movie studios took all the money they spend making movies and invested in stocks or other "safe" investments they would make much more money. Only once in a blue moon does a film make a ton of profit for the studios and investors.
Investing in a film or TV show is very risky. If you want to get rich you would be better off putting that money in a bank or a stock portfolio. This is why movie studios make... well... mostly crap... sequels and spin offs that are a "sure thing". Big studios are very afraid of trying anything new.
The internet now gives EVERY ONE, every creative artist, animator, film maker the same opportunity to satisfy the desire to be "seen" at a minimal cost.
This is the future of "Hollywood", this is why the writer's went on strike, they know the internet is the new distribution model for content. In the future "Commercially Aired" will not just be theaters or television, it will also be the internet in some form.
Tomorrow, you could post an animation on the internet... somewhere... and potentially have thousands upon thousands of viewers in a matter of days. If it is good, if it "catches on" you would be better off than trying to sell it to some stuffed shirts in a studio who wouldn't know a good idea if it bit them in the arse.
I forget the name of the company but someone recently announced new graphics cards specifically created for downloading and viewing HD content over the internet. That is the future.
-vern
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These are just ramblings from my own head. My opinions. But so far over the years my predictions about the internet as distribution for content have been coming true.
What the internet is doing now for "film" and animation content is the same thing it did in the past for small businesses trying to reach customers. It is giving the "small" unknown guys an opportunity to be exposed to hundreds of thousands if not millions of viewers.
The same rules apply to internet content as "commercially aired" programming... if it stinks no one watches it.
I remember hearing about an independent short film maker who was required to have his film shown in a theater to a specific number of paying customers in order to have his film qualify for the Oscar. So he rented a small theater, invited a bunch of people to watch his film. Even though he had already had thousands of viewers see it on the internet.
He said that his film shown on the internet reached 100,000+ people in just a few days compared to the few hundred people who saw it at theater over 3 days for 10 times the cost (theater rental, film transfer etc).
As an independent animator or film maker the internet is a great opportunity to be seen. Yes there is a lot of crap out there but the good stuff does rise to the top.
Only a small tiny percentage get rich and famous in the entertainment business. A tiny small amount. If your goal is to get rich you might be in the wrong business. I heard an interview with a film producer who said that if the movie studios took all the money they spend making movies and invested in stocks or other "safe" investments they would make much more money. Only once in a blue moon does a film make a ton of profit for the studios and investors.
Investing in a film or TV show is very risky. If you want to get rich you would be better off putting that money in a bank or a stock portfolio. This is why movie studios make... well... mostly crap... sequels and spin offs that are a "sure thing". Big studios are very afraid of trying anything new.
The internet now gives EVERY ONE, every creative artist, animator, film maker the same opportunity to satisfy the desire to be "seen" at a minimal cost.
This is the future of "Hollywood", this is why the writer's went on strike, they know the internet is the new distribution model for content. In the future "Commercially Aired" will not just be theaters or television, it will also be the internet in some form.
Tomorrow, you could post an animation on the internet... somewhere... and potentially have thousands upon thousands of viewers in a matter of days. If it is good, if it "catches on" you would be better off than trying to sell it to some stuffed shirts in a studio who wouldn't know a good idea if it bit them in the arse.
I forget the name of the company but someone recently announced new graphics cards specifically created for downloading and viewing HD content over the internet. That is the future.
-vern
---------
These are just ramblings from my own head. My opinions. But so far over the years my predictions about the internet as distribution for content have been coming true.
Hits seem to be the buzz word on how we measure our succsess these days but there is another world out there too aside from our virtual community. For insance, I have no trouble getting paid for my newspaper comic strip or for a TV commecial but in this online world I can't see any way of making a crust out of this stuff. Not getting rich, just making a bit of money on the side. For instance, as an internet marketing exercise I opened an online T-shirt shop and threw a few T-Shirt designs up based on an animation I uploaded to youtube and a few other sites complete with link and an AD for the shirts. I have had quite a few thousand hits and great positive comments...but not one sale for any merchandise?
(Maybe I should have named this thread, an animators guide to online survival.
Has anyone had any sucsess in making money from their characters/animation as a small time independant online? Tips and ideas welcome!
D.K
(Maybe I should have named this thread, an animators guide to online survival.
Has anyone had any sucsess in making money from their characters/animation as a small time independant online? Tips and ideas welcome!
D.K
Well, this is a whole 'nother issue, quite separate from the income problems of the animation business -- although some of the marketplace physics uses the same formulas.DK wrote:... I opened an online T-shirt shop and threw a few T-Shirt designs up... but not one sale for any merchandise?
In order for customers to put your character on their back, they need to have a very powerful identification with either: (a) the given character; (b) the message implied by the graphic; or (c) you as an artist.
The ability of an audience to identify with the artist is a particularly complicated matter. I will tell you, though, that women's ability to identify with other women -- and to support their artistic endeavors as a matter of solidarity -- vastly exceeds the tendency of male consumers to identify with artists who happen to be male. This has enormous implications for an artist's life.
To further complicate merchandise sales, everything I just said also obeys the marketplace rules concerning aggressive advertising.
Start by adopting a female stage name??? L O L
I just found an interestiung link on this topic.
http://www.calicomonkey.com/tutorials/h ... rtoons.php
D.K
http://www.calicomonkey.com/tutorials/h ... rtoons.php
D.K
I can think of at least one reason -- money. Good work shines out, but there is an awful lot of crap out there, especially on TV. And why is it out there? Because it's cheap...All you have to have is stamina. If you can produce 26 half-hour episodes of animation that are even half decent, someone will buy them if they are cheap. You only have to look around.Mikdog wrote:I guess if your quality of animation is good enough and appealing enough, a tv station would buy it. I see no reason why they would want to buy something of inferior quality. Or why they wouldn't buy something of quality.
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
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CalicoMonkey
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:17 pm
- Contact:
Hey all,
This is my first post here, was just following the referring link that DK posted above to my site (CalicoMonkey.com).
I've been forging the "make a living via online cartoons" now for just under two years, and it's been tough. Everything you've been discussing, I've gone through:
"Man this cartoon is getting a lot of traffic. Yay! Hmm, nobody bought a t-shirt. Or clicked on a Google Ad. Or signed up for the newsletter. What. The. HELL?!"
In one stand-out weekend I pulled in 20,000+ page views for a cartoon I did about the Wii, with a grand total of zero conversions into regular customers.
So what are we as content creators to do?
I'm in the middle of a transition now myself. In March or so of this year I began writing tutorials for Toon Boom (nothing against Anime Studio, Toon Boom is just what I started with). I mixed it up a bit by having the written content co-mingle with the short animations. Adsense in particular became more valuable, such that it was far surpassing the occasional t-shirt sale.
Even so, it's still nothing to live on, between $2 to $5 US each day. Eventually I can buy a beer or a video game, and now I do collect Adsense checks more often than once a year, but I think you'll agree that's still nothing worthwhile.
I'm now working on making pitches to specific companies and websites that are already successful, about animations that would appeal to them. I believe that sponsorship is the key for people like us, and should be the next step.
I know you have a great idea in your head, if not 20. Is there any chance one of those ideas could fall into a particular niche? When you think about that niche, what websites come to mind?
For example, I mentioned video games for myself. Perhaps I have an idea for a cartoon (or even better, a series of short cartoons) that sites like Joystiq.com, 1up.com or Kotaku.com would pay for?
It's not like it's a new concept either:
Adam Phillips is sponsored by Newgrounds.
Ben Croshaw is sponsored by Escapist Magazine.
ESPN.com has had two sports centered animated series on their site.
That's the plan, currently. I also think it would be valuable for potential sponsors to see some of the work you do/can do. Having a site to show that off is imperative.
My recommendation is to go to Aniboom.com and sign up for their animation pitch contest, potentially worth $20,000. If nothing else you'll get good practice at approaching sponsors.
And while you're surfing, I just finished an animated blog entry today, would love any comments.
Rock on,
--Will
This is my first post here, was just following the referring link that DK posted above to my site (CalicoMonkey.com).
I've been forging the "make a living via online cartoons" now for just under two years, and it's been tough. Everything you've been discussing, I've gone through:
"Man this cartoon is getting a lot of traffic. Yay! Hmm, nobody bought a t-shirt. Or clicked on a Google Ad. Or signed up for the newsletter. What. The. HELL?!"
In one stand-out weekend I pulled in 20,000+ page views for a cartoon I did about the Wii, with a grand total of zero conversions into regular customers.
So what are we as content creators to do?
I'm in the middle of a transition now myself. In March or so of this year I began writing tutorials for Toon Boom (nothing against Anime Studio, Toon Boom is just what I started with). I mixed it up a bit by having the written content co-mingle with the short animations. Adsense in particular became more valuable, such that it was far surpassing the occasional t-shirt sale.
Even so, it's still nothing to live on, between $2 to $5 US each day. Eventually I can buy a beer or a video game, and now I do collect Adsense checks more often than once a year, but I think you'll agree that's still nothing worthwhile.
I'm now working on making pitches to specific companies and websites that are already successful, about animations that would appeal to them. I believe that sponsorship is the key for people like us, and should be the next step.
I know you have a great idea in your head, if not 20. Is there any chance one of those ideas could fall into a particular niche? When you think about that niche, what websites come to mind?
For example, I mentioned video games for myself. Perhaps I have an idea for a cartoon (or even better, a series of short cartoons) that sites like Joystiq.com, 1up.com or Kotaku.com would pay for?
It's not like it's a new concept either:
Adam Phillips is sponsored by Newgrounds.
Ben Croshaw is sponsored by Escapist Magazine.
ESPN.com has had two sports centered animated series on their site.
That's the plan, currently. I also think it would be valuable for potential sponsors to see some of the work you do/can do. Having a site to show that off is imperative.
My recommendation is to go to Aniboom.com and sign up for their animation pitch contest, potentially worth $20,000. If nothing else you'll get good practice at approaching sponsors.
And while you're surfing, I just finished an animated blog entry today, would love any comments.
Rock on,
--Will
The new business model is to make a penny a customer and have 20,000 customers a day. The problem is that no one is paying a penny, including myself.
Their are a few websites that pay you for content that is original.
http://www.scottkirsner.com/webvid/gettingpaid.htm
Dale
Their are a few websites that pay you for content that is original.
http://www.scottkirsner.com/webvid/gettingpaid.htm
Dale