3D eyes setup for DK

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3D eyes setup for DK

Postby Genete » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:11 am

Here it is.

http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff ... for-DK.swf
http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff ... or-DK.anme

There is no change of the shape of te eye by point motion. Only pupil translation.

Hope it helps you.
Genete

EDITED

With eye shape deformation manually by point motion.

http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff ... or-DK2.swf
http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff ... r-DK2.anme
Last edited by Genete on Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DK » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:24 am

Genete. Thanks for that :). you are a real treasure to this forum. I'll check it out and get back to you if I have any questions.

Cheers
D.K
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Postby DK » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:27 am

Hi Genete. Here is the first question.
Are you using a script to drive the bones on the 3D axis?

D.K
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Postby Genete » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:39 am

DK wrote:Hi Genete. Here is the first question.
Are you using a script to drive the bones on the 3D axis?

D.K


None script. Only bone constriaints and bone link / parent properly.

Perhaps you should have look to the 3D tutorial again and try to understand the complex 9 bones setup that gives the second axis rotation. That's the most difficult part.

Also remember that the 3D tutorial is considering the TOP and FRONT views to work with them and now i'm using the FRONT and SIDE views because heads turn is more natural with that kind of setup. Then in the tutorial the bones A, B and C are horizontal in the tutorial and now are horizontal and A1, B1, C1, A1a, B1a, C1a, A1b, B1b and C1c are vertical in tutorial and now are horizontal.
Good luck
Genete

UPDATED THE FIRST POST.
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Postby DK » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:00 am

Thanks for your amazing examples Genete. What is confusing me though is this amazingly complex bone rig required just to get a very simple axis manipulation of 2D planes in 3D space. Would'nt things be made a lot easier if E-Frontier included a basic 3D bone rig in the next version of AS or am I completely missing something? (like normal lol).

D.K
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Postby DK » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:56 am

Hi Genete,
Here is a very quick 3D rig similar to your AS rig but with far less bones. The model is made in LightWave 3D and constructed with polygons and points similar to what AS uses. I could have easily mapped nice brush strokes around the eyes and mouth etc but i did'nt want to spend too much time doing this as a sample.
Maybe a bone rig like this could be a neat model for the next AS upgrade?

D.K


http://www.errolgray.com.au/3D eyes.swf

Image
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Postby DK » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:58 am

Here's that swf link again.

http://www.errolgray.com.au/3Deyes.swf

Cheers
D.K
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Postby Genete » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:22 pm

DK wrote:Thanks for your amazing examples Genete. What is confusing me though is this amazingly complex bone rig required just to get a very simple axis manipulation of 2D planes in 3D space. Would'nt things be made a lot easier if E-Frontier included a basic 3D bone rig in the next version of AS or am I completely missing something? (like normal lol).

D.K


Not really a 2D plane. With every "single" 3D rig (say "single" is a euphemism because you need almost 15 bones for the general case) you can move a point in a 3D space. But you can rig points in different positions in space that are not sharing a plane. See my 3D eye.
Also there is a very very interesting thing that I used to perform the 3D hand that is that you can link a 3D rig to another 3D rig and create a 3D spatial limb. Even you can virtually add another 3d point and make a 3D chain. Like the fingers of the 3D hand.

DK wrote:Genete. Thanks for that Smile. you are a real treasure to this forum. I'll check it out and get back to you if I have any questions.

Cheers
D.K


Thankyou. You are welcome, I'm glad sharing knowledge. I feel obligated because I also have learned a lot from you. Do you remember our discussion about what is better to perform a turn? Switch layers or actions?. It was in the post you did of a shark. I learned a lot discussing it.
Thanks to you.

Best
Genete
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Postby Genete » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:09 am

Here is an example of what I have said before about that not only a simple layer rotation can be achieved. This is a 3D object with 2D tools.

I only move the vertexs of the piramid using my 3D rig. Also it have layer ordering to proper visualization of the volume.

This example can be done also with previously rotated layers and using the sort layers by true distance feature. But imagine that you dont move only the vertex oof the piramid. Imagine that you can move another layer with more shapes on it. It could represent a basic nose what can have a "false" volume using the techs I have in my 3D hand.

I hope this helps for further understanding of the 3D rig.

http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff/piramid2.swf
http://amanoalzada.iespana.es/Mohostuff/piramid2.anme

Enjoy
Genete
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Postby DK » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:26 am

Thanks for that Genete. That makes it a LOT clearer as to what exactly is going on with the bones. I still don't understand how I might go about making this bone setup though. Is it possible to get a VERY written step by step basics on how one would go about it?

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Postby Genete » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:49 am

DK wrote:Thanks for that Genete. That makes it a LOT clearer as to what exactly is going on with the bones. I still don't understand how I might go about making this bone setup though. Is it possible to get a VERY written step by step basics on how one would go about it?

D.K


I think that first of trying to do the bone setup you should understand the 3D basic concepts that are involved in all this stuff.

Don't worry. I'll do a visual tutorial but I need more time. Here is a quick review of the concepts. This concepts are a little different from the 3D Tutorial because that tutorial used the FRONT and the TOP views as working views and for head rotation it is better a FRONT / SIDE working system.

1.) We are going to use the FRONT view in the animation.

2.) Every thing that exists in our virtual 3D space should be projected on the FRONT view. In the general case the camera view is the FRONT view and it is also the XY plane of the layer,

3.) We are going to have two main rotations. X and Y

4.) Any 3D point in space have a Z coordinate. (if it is 0 no bone set up is neeed for this coordinte). But the Z dimension is not visible in the XY projection so we need the SIDE view to calculate the Z dimension.

5.) Lets start thinking on a X rotation. From the initial position, a X rotation should perform a vertical line in projection. The amount of the vertical traslation dependns on the amount of Y and Z of the point. In fact the radious of rotation is the square root of the sum of Y*Y + Z*Z (cartesian coordinates theory...). To know what is the real value of this rotation radious we go to the SIDE view.

6.) Imagine now that you are in the SIDE view. If you rotate the point by X it would perform a circle in the SIDE view projection. The circle can be achieved with a single bone but I need to separate the Z and Y coordinates of this rotation in two cinematic chains. Why? Because I want to make a poyection of the Z - SIDE projected rotation coordinate into the XY projection plane.

7.) To perform a rotation in the SIDE view I need two cinematic chains (springy chains) that gives me the Z and Y coordinates of the rotation circle independently but by a rotation of a single master bone (the Rot X master bone in the examples). But How can I project the Z coordinate of the rotation in the FRONT view?. I have invented a special variable springy cinematic chain that change its length with the rotation of another second master bone: The master Y rotation. So for the initial position of the point in the FRONT view, the lenght of the Z dimension of the SIDE rotation cinematic chain should be reduced to zero. Later if you perform a Y rotation, this springy cinematic chain would increase its length from zero to the final SIDE projected Z coordinate. It lets make different X rotation movement in the FRONT view from a line to a circle passing by an ellipse, only manipulating the Y rotation master bone. The SIDE view Y cinematic chain of rotation don't need to be modified in the FORNT projection because it have the same dimension in the SIDE and FRONT views

8.) Finally to complete the 3D rig it is needed to add a third springy cinematic chain to represent the X coordinate of the point. The X coordinate of the point is affected when a Y rotation is done and not by the X rotation.


I'll make a visual guide to perform the 3D theory in AS by bone setup as soon as I have more time.

(((Sory for the confusing languaje but is very difficult to explain without a drawing in front of your eyes.)))

Regards
Genete
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Postby DarthFurby » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:51 am

Hi DK, just wanted to expand on the potential benefit of Genete's technique. Imagine trying to build a Snoopy model in 3d. It doesn't work. Not without breaking the design. But if you have a bone rig like Genete's that intelligently morphs points on a 2d plane, then the possbility of morphing Snoopy into different angles while staying faithful to the character design is a possibility. Heyvern has some nice animations that show off this concept.


Genete: Thanks for that detailed explanation!
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Postby Genete » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:19 am

DarthFurby wrote:Genete: Thanks for that detailed explanation!


You're welocme!!

I have posted a visual aid in the 3D RIg tutorial topic what helps to understand how the rotations are done in the 3D space.
I will do a new slow step by step detailed visual tutorial to do the 3D rig of a point (or a real sample).
Be patient please.

Best
Genete
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Postby DK » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:37 am

Wow we're getting there....This is exciting Genete :)

D.K
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Postby andrewjs » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:26 pm

DarthFurby wrote:Hi DK, just wanted to expand on the potential benefit of Genete's technique. Imagine trying to build a Snoopy model in 3d. It doesn't work. Not without breaking the design. But if you have a bone rig like Genete's that intelligently morphs points on a 2d plane, then the possbility of morphing Snoopy into different angles while staying faithful to the character design is a possibility. Heyvern has some nice animations that show off this concept.


Genete: Thanks for that detailed explanation!


I'd love to see some of Heyvern's animations that show this.. any links?
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