i have search, but i can't found any answer.
i'm working in a project which needs fingered hands which can be turned. i'm tried something with fazek's the replace line tool sometime ago, but it's very tedious (since i saw the heyvern's head turns using just one keyframe bone all seems to be tedious).
have somebody a good technique?
thanks.
turn hands smoothly
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Víctor Paredes
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5665
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turn hands smoothly
Moho Product Manager
www.mohoanimation.com
Rigged animation supervisor in My father's dragon - Lead Moho artist in Wolfwalkers - Cartoon Saloon - My personal Youtube Channel
Hello selgin.
I haven't a direct answer but I can give you some ideas:
1) Start with two fingers only first. The rest of fingers (up to the clasic five or four) sould be wrapped.
2) Bones are the main problem. I suggest to you to create the hand under a switch layer. It have bones and will help you with the turning of the fingers and the palm with the interpolation feature. How to solve differnts bones for every hand position??? See below.
3) Use actions. With actions you can: insert a switch keyframe (shape turning...) and also position the bones to the correct position (scale, translate and relative angle) for the new shape shown.
Remember that when you move bones you move points also so the animation should be a combination of switch technique and bone motion with action.
I made a animation of a leg where the foot points toward the camera coming from a side position. I did not use Switch layers, only actions. Bones were only moved and not scaled.
A second issue that I have no clues to solve is the problem of a position of the hand where the "real bones of the and"are not parallel to the projection plane (camera projection). In that case the movement of bone (rotation or IK) must be joined to a scale of the bone because a rotatin of a "real bone" in a non paralel drawing produces a ellipse and not a circle... A difficult task.
I assume that you want to stop your hand turn at any place and animate it (using bones).
Anyway create that kind of animation need a very big work in preparation, specialy the point and shapes. Perhaps you should start only with the bones first.
Other issue is the shape ordering. If switch layer is used then all shapes will be in same layer. There is a script in script area that reorder the shapes with a switch layer applicaton. It could help. If you don't use switch layer for the bones then you can use Rasheed's scripts for layer z depth ordering.
Good luck friend!!!
I haven't a direct answer but I can give you some ideas:
1) Start with two fingers only first. The rest of fingers (up to the clasic five or four) sould be wrapped.
2) Bones are the main problem. I suggest to you to create the hand under a switch layer. It have bones and will help you with the turning of the fingers and the palm with the interpolation feature. How to solve differnts bones for every hand position??? See below.
3) Use actions. With actions you can: insert a switch keyframe (shape turning...) and also position the bones to the correct position (scale, translate and relative angle) for the new shape shown.
Remember that when you move bones you move points also so the animation should be a combination of switch technique and bone motion with action.
I made a animation of a leg where the foot points toward the camera coming from a side position. I did not use Switch layers, only actions. Bones were only moved and not scaled.
A second issue that I have no clues to solve is the problem of a position of the hand where the "real bones of the and"are not parallel to the projection plane (camera projection). In that case the movement of bone (rotation or IK) must be joined to a scale of the bone because a rotatin of a "real bone" in a non paralel drawing produces a ellipse and not a circle... A difficult task.
I assume that you want to stop your hand turn at any place and animate it (using bones).
Anyway create that kind of animation need a very big work in preparation, specialy the point and shapes. Perhaps you should start only with the bones first.
Other issue is the shape ordering. If switch layer is used then all shapes will be in same layer. There is a script in script area that reorder the shapes with a switch layer applicaton. It could help. If you don't use switch layer for the bones then you can use Rasheed's scripts for layer z depth ordering.
Good luck friend!!!
I found a cool trick I've been using for some of my characters.
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/larry_hands2b.mov
It uses a switch layer with bones.
The two layers for the switch are identical except for shape ordering.
On the first layer the finger shapes order is; index, middle, pinky. On the second layer the "pinky" becomes the index and visa versa and other shape orders change creating the illusion of a smooth turn. This character is a "cat" so his pad shapes are on top on the second switch layer.
I use bone translation to make the fingers "close" or line up for the turn. At a specific spot I set the switch layer to the next layer.
The key is the "illusion". The hand never really turns it just looks like it does because of the order of the shapes and the position of the bones.
I have a few extra bones for the "hand" so I can "squish" it for the side view.
You could save the "switch" motion as an action if you want.
-vern
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/larry_hands2b.mov
It uses a switch layer with bones.
The two layers for the switch are identical except for shape ordering.
On the first layer the finger shapes order is; index, middle, pinky. On the second layer the "pinky" becomes the index and visa versa and other shape orders change creating the illusion of a smooth turn. This character is a "cat" so his pad shapes are on top on the second switch layer.
I use bone translation to make the fingers "close" or line up for the turn. At a specific spot I set the switch layer to the next layer.
The key is the "illusion". The hand never really turns it just looks like it does because of the order of the shapes and the position of the bones.
I have a few extra bones for the "hand" so I can "squish" it for the side view.
You could save the "switch" motion as an action if you want.
-vern
The modeling and animation looks terrific...
you're a master of so many aspects of this medium... scripting, modeling, rigging... wow...
...except I sense that your file must have taken a hit in picture quality in the pipeline between vector model and rendered video. Seems blurry and slightly noisy.
Is it your codec? Or is it AS?
you're a master of so many aspects of this medium... scripting, modeling, rigging... wow...
...except I sense that your file must have taken a hit in picture quality in the pipeline between vector model and rendered video. Seems blurry and slightly noisy.
Is it your codec? Or is it AS?
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Víctor Paredes
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5665
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:18 am
- Location: Barcelona/Chile
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thank you genete and heyvern... again
i insist, you two make this forum so interesting. you should have a bubble pipe (una pipa que lance burbujas, y una cotona blanca y lentes inteligentes y hablar levantando una sola ceja. diciendo uhm, uhm).
i will try with your techniques, i hope to post something soon. today i was to the office and talked with my boss, i ask him Is there some work to make?. No, no, he told me, you must investigate this amazing techniques in moho you told me (heyvern's turns).
i was trying to make something, before reading your answers. it is not too clean and the hands are awful. the head have a control bone for turn, a bone for eyes (ojos its called) and a bone for the mouth (boca).
http://www.freewebs.com/tazatriste/moho ... uerpo.anme (right click, save as)
as i made the arm in another file and later i decided to put together with this character (more or less the same character as always. he is my guinea pig), there are several bone layers (one for the body, inside it another for the head and one for each arm). i would like to combine the body and the arms bone layers in just one bone layer, do you know if it's possible with some script?
i insist, you two make this forum so interesting. you should have a bubble pipe (una pipa que lance burbujas, y una cotona blanca y lentes inteligentes y hablar levantando una sola ceja. diciendo uhm, uhm).
i will try with your techniques, i hope to post something soon. today i was to the office and talked with my boss, i ask him Is there some work to make?. No, no, he told me, you must investigate this amazing techniques in moho you told me (heyvern's turns).
i was trying to make something, before reading your answers. it is not too clean and the hands are awful. the head have a control bone for turn, a bone for eyes (ojos its called) and a bone for the mouth (boca).
http://www.freewebs.com/tazatriste/moho ... uerpo.anme (right click, save as)
as i made the arm in another file and later i decided to put together with this character (more or less the same character as always. he is my guinea pig), there are several bone layers (one for the body, inside it another for the head and one for each arm). i would like to combine the body and the arms bone layers in just one bone layer, do you know if it's possible with some script?
Moho Product Manager
www.mohoanimation.com
Rigged animation supervisor in My father's dragon - Lead Moho artist in Wolfwalkers - Cartoon Saloon - My personal Youtube Channel
The question is: do you actually have to show how a hand is turned? And how fast would that movement be?
Even when I worked with Animo ages ago I found it impossible to create a hand which was able to turn 360°. The best solution would be to carefully split the scenes and analyze how much of a turn is needed, then use one of several models/riggings which is optimized to that part of the turn.
Alternatives:
- do it in 3D
- draw it frame by frame (my favourite)
- have different angles in different switch layers.
Tip:
- don't do it on ones. Set your project to 12 fps, that way you can skip several inbetweens.
Even when I worked with Animo ages ago I found it impossible to create a hand which was able to turn 360°. The best solution would be to carefully split the scenes and analyze how much of a turn is needed, then use one of several models/riggings which is optimized to that part of the turn.
Alternatives:
- do it in 3D
- draw it frame by frame (my favourite)
- have different angles in different switch layers.
Tip:
- don't do it on ones. Set your project to 12 fps, that way you can skip several inbetweens.
Thank you for the compliment Selgin. I appreciate it very much (I have very low self esteem and need all the pumping up I can get.selgin wrote:i would like to combine the body and the arms bone layers in just one bone layer, do you know if it's possible with some script?
)------------------
There is a "copy/paste bones" script that works pretty good. It doesn't copy bone constraints unfortunately.
It is in the scripting forum somewhere with instructions. I don't have the link handy.
Copy the arm bones to your body bone layer. Re-parent the arms. That should be all that's needed. Make sure you RENAME the arm bones FIRST if they have the same names. I made that mistake already and got really confused.
Copied and pasted a whole bunch of bones with the same names and lost track of the darn things. I am still finding those bones all over the place. (Found one under my bed and a few in my sink.
)p.s. I often keep just the hand bones in a separate bone layer. they often get lost amidst all those other bones. Plus I keep selecting those little finger bones when I try to grab an arm bone.
-vern