Frame 0 and the Sequencer

[Reindeer]

One thing that's always mystified me about Moho is how the Sequencer works. Mainly, why, it leaves frame 0 visible when moving a layer forward (to make it start play at a different frame).
When I use the sequencer to move a layer's Start Time forward, I always find having to deal with a "frozen" frame 0 quite confusing, especially when sequencing multiple layers (for example, if I'd want to create loops of duplicated bees flying and sequence the layers to different Start Times). What I normally do to get frame 0 out of the way is add a layer keyframe on the new frame 0 and move the graphic content out of camera view. This is conceptually simple, but in a practical workflow I need to pay extra attention if I don't want to make mistakes.
Or, maybe, I'm just doing it wrong. Is there a way to avoid moving frame 0 out os sight, or to tell Moho to not show frame 0 when changing the Start Time?

As for moving the Start Time back in time rather than forward, I yet have to figure out how to get to frame 0 without moving the start time back to its default position, because apparently moving the Start Time back – to the left of frame 0 – tucks frame 0 back there, out of reach.

I like the "frame 0" concept but sometimes I wish there were an option to display it separately from the timeline. Like a "matrix" holder in a separate timeline box of its own (kind of what happens with Actions).

[Hoptoad]

I don't like moving things backward with the sequencer either.

This is what I do. At some point I'll have the various animated animated elements doing their thing in the workspace, let's say on frame 48. Once that has been taken care of, I make the animation start on frame 48.

[Greenlaw]

I agree with Hoptoad. It's best to offset the start frame so you can see your 'sub-zero' animation.

I suggest starting the animation at frame 101, though. This makes it easier to count frames and to sync the frames to an animatic and edit.

Not only is this good for working with Sequencer, but it's especially great for pre-rolling dynamics and particle simulations. I do this when I'm working in other 2D animation, and in 3D and composting programs too. Offsetting and starting at 101 (or 201 if necessary) can make working with anything that starts out-of-range more convenient.

[Reindeer]

I don't like moving things backward with the sequencer either.

This is what I do. At some point I'll have the various animated animated elements doing their thing in the workspace, let's say on frame 48. Once that has been taken care of, I make the animation start on frame 48.

The thing I don't understand is if I start animating on frame 48 I'll get a "hanging" rig from frame 0 to 48. If it's a cycle, I'll see the rig stand still from 0 to 47 and pick up motion at 48.
So I still need to move it out of the way by means of moving the layer from 0 to 47. I would create a keyframe of the animation's position at 48, then go to 0 and move the whole rig out of the camera view. As said, I may be doing it wrong.. :/

[Reindeer]

I agree with Hoptoad. It's best to offset the start frame so you can see your 'sub-zero' animation.

I suggest starting the animation at frame 101, though. This makes it easier to count frames and to sync the frames to an animatic and edit.

Not only is this good for working with Sequencer, but it's especially great for pre-rolling dynamics and particle simulations. I do this when I'm working in other 2D animation, and in 3D and composting programs too. Offsetting and starting at 101 (or 201 if necessary) can make working with anything that starts out-of-range more convenient.

So, you mean you start animating on a frame number with a criteria (100 + 1) and then drag everything back to 0 so che true frame 0 is actually at - 100.
If I'm not mistaken, this still means one needs to move the layer's Start Time back and forth every time a change is made to the rig or the layer content.

[Hoptoad]

The thing I don't understand is if I start animating on frame 48 I'll get a "hanging" rig from frame 0 to 48. If it's a cycle, I'll see the rig stand still from 0 to 47 and pick up motion at 48.
So I still need to move it out of the way by means of moving the layer from 0 to 47. I would create a keyframe of the animation's position at 48, then go to 0 and move the whole rig out of the camera view. As said, I may be doing it wrong.. :/

I'm trying to understand the problem, but I'm not sure if I do.

If you set the animation to start at frame 48, then whatever happens in frames 1-47 doesn't matter, because those frames don't render when you export your cartoon. I see all kinds of craziness in those frames that don't render. I just ignore it.

I might be misunderstanding the frame 0 problem you're having, though.

[Greenlaw]

If I'm not mistaken, this still means one needs to move the layer's Start Time back and forth every time a change is made to the rig or the layer content.

That's what the Toggle Frame 0 button is for. It switches between your current animation frame and frame 0. Click it once to go to 0, and when you're done making the changes, click it again to go back to your animation frame.

Before Moho 14, this command was called Design Mode and there was no button for it, so I included it in my MQC button panel. In 14, Lost Marble renamed it and added a button for it in the left corner of the Timeline.

[Reindeer]

The thing I don't understand is if I start animating on frame 48 I'll get a "hanging" rig from frame 0 to 48. If it's a cycle, I'll see the rig stand still from 0 to 47 and pick up motion at 48.
So I still need to move it out of the way by means of moving the layer from 0 to 47. I would create a keyframe of the animation's position at 48, then go to 0 and move the whole rig out of the camera view. As said, I may be doing it wrong.. :/

I'm trying to understand the problem, but I'm not sure if I do.

If you set the animation to start at frame 48, then whatever happens in frames 1-47 doesn't matter, because those frames don't render when you export your cartoon. I see all kinds of craziness in those frames that don't render. I just ignore it.

I might be misunderstanding the frame 0 problem you're having, though.

Not easy to explain.... so, In my experience, any layer content (animated or not) remains visible (and renders) from frame 0 to any frame set as Start. If I draw a circle and move the layer's Start Time to frame 48, I'll be seeing that circle from 0 to 48 (which is why I move the content out of the way), and it'll render. If it's not supposed to do that, I must be making some macroscopic mistake.

[Reindeer]

If I'm not mistaken, this still means one needs to move the layer's Start Time back and forth every time a change is made to the rig or the layer content.

That's what the Toggle Frame 0 button is for. It switches between your current animation frame and frame 0. Click it once to go to 0, and when you're done making the changes, click it again to go back to your animation frame.

Before Moho 14, this command was called Design Mode and there was no button for it, so I included it in my MQC button panel. But in 14, Lost Marble renamed it and added a button for it in the left corner of the Timeline.

Ah, this is a very useful command! I've actually never used before (I've been stupidly rewinding to frame 0 every time I need to see it). Great!

[Hoptoad]

Not easy to explain.... so, In my experience, any layer content (animated or not) remains visible (and renders) from frame 0 to any frame set as Start. If I draw a circle and move the layer's Start Time to frame 48, I'll be seeing that circle from 0 to 48 (which is why I move the content out of the way), and it'll render. If it's not supposed to do that, I must be making some macroscopic mistake.

I still a little confused. Frame 0 doesn't render, in my experience. I think I'm confused by your use of "Start Time." I'm guessing you mean the the time a sequence begins when you've slid it forward in Sequencer timeline.

I'm probably wrong, but it sounds like you don't know the following information.

You can go to FILE > PROJECT SETTINGS and set the "Start Frame" to 48 (or whatever). When you press PLAY, the animation will ignore frames 1-47 and start on frame 48.

[Greenlaw]

You can set the render range directly on the Timeline too...

- Alt+LMB click on the timeline to set the Start frame.
- Alt+RMB click on the timeline to set the End frame.



I prefer this method; it's interactive and quicker than opening another window.

(Note: Shoot, image hosting with Dropbox still seems to be broken today. I hope it's back up again soon.)

(Update: problem fixed, but not with Dropbox. See below for more info.)

[Hoptoad]

If you right-click on the image and select Open Image In New Tab, you can view it.

[Greenlaw]

Oh, cool...thanks! That's something, anyway.

I'm not sure if this is a Dropbox issue or an LM forum issue yet. I checked in at the Dropbox forum, and someone there said Dropbox is trying to discourage users from using Dropbox as an image hosting service. That hasn't been officially confirmed by Dropbox, so I'm skeptical about that info. It would be unfortunate if true, though...everything I've posted here is hosted through my Dropbox account. I hope I get some official word or solution before too long.

[hayasidist]

... someone there said Dropbox is trying to discourage users from using Dropbox as an image hosting service. ...

That approach - start out by advertising how convenient it is for you to use <file host> as a repository for images for bulletin boards then, when they see critical mass, rip the facility away from you happened with IIRC imageshack some years ago -- if you wanted to use it to host images for boards, you had to pay...

[Greenlaw]

Except I do pay for Dropbox. Still waiting for more info.