Import images for reference are blurry

[cherrytomato]

Hi, I'm new to moho. I used to use Toonboom, but want to explore moho more. I'm using moho pro 14. I use moho to draw the character. I import the images as reference to draw over, but it turns out blurry. I tried both png and jpg, they has the same result. Can anyone walk me through how to get clear image please? The image is 11MB, I scale it with in the screen size.
I tired uncheck "GPU caching", nothing changed.
In Moho:
Using whindows' photos:

[Greenlaw]

One more thing to consider and try: Moho does not fully support 16-bit color (you can import it, but the result may not be what you expect,) and I'm pretty sure Moho can't export 16-bit color yet. (It's been a long-standing request.) Because of this, I only import 8-bit (meaning 24-bit) images, and I've yet to see this issue here.

TBH, though, I haven't fully tested this in Moho 14 yet, only basic examples so far. I normally render only character passes from Moho and composite with the BG art in Ae, Nuke, or Fusion to use full 16-bit color backgrounds in my final renders. So, when I import a background image to Moho, it's almost always just a placeholder.

I don't know if 16-bit imports have anything to do with this 'low-res' display/render issue, but if anyone can compare a standard 8-bits per channel vs 16-bits per channel image imported to Moho, please post what you find. (If I have time, I'll try this test during my lunch break today.)

Note: in case anyone is confused by the above, when I say 8-bit, I don't mean 8-bit like in old-school console games. I mean 8-bits per channel or 24-bit color. As compared to 16-bit, which is actually 48-bit color. (Ugh...I wish someone would officially simplify digital color terminology.)

[cherrytomato]

One more thing to consider and try: Moho does not fully support 16-bit color (you can import it, but the result may not be what you expect,) and I'm pretty sure Moho can't export 16-bit color yet. (It's been a long-standing request.) Because of this, I only import 8-bit (meaning 24-bit) images, and I've yet to see this issue here.

TBH, though, I haven't fully tested this in Moho 14 yet, only basic examples so far. I normally render only character passes from Moho and composite with the BG art in Ae, Nuke, or Fusion to use full 16-bit color backgrounds in my final renders. So, when I import a background image to Moho, it's almost always just a placeholder.

I don't know if 16-bit imports have anything to do with this 'low-res' display/render issue, but if anyone can compare a standard 8-bits per channel vs 16-bits per channel image imported to Moho, please post what you find. (If I have time, I'll try this test during my lunch break today.)

Note: in case anyone is confused by the above, when I say 8-bit, I don't mean 8-bit like in old-school console games. I mean 8-bits per channel or 24-bit color. As compared to 16-bit, which is actually 48-bit color. (Ugh...I wish someone would officially simplify digital color terminology.)

I just checked my photoshop image mode, it's 8-bit.
But under my image property, I see this

[Greenlaw]

It's lunchtime so I made a really fast test. Nothing conclusive, just confirming a few things discussed earlier.

The test...

I made a large doodle in Krita, 8-bits per channel and 2048 x 1080 in size. I made sure the image had thinnish dark lines against a transparent background. I exported it as a PNG and PSD using default settings, then imported both versions into a 1280 x 720 Moho project.

Both versions imported looking a bit chunky but both versions also rendered correctly at their full high-resolution. Then I tried the same test with files from Photoshop, and got the same result.

So, I'm guessing the new display system isn't correctly displaying large images. If this down-rezzing is intentional to improve performance, I think it should be optional. (Not a deal-killer since it's just a display preview, but there may be situations were I need to see it at the actual pixel res.)

Normally, I wouldn't be concerned by this since I'm getting the high-resolution result I need in the final render. But I also don't think the image should display in low-res quality in this situation. I'll take a deeper look tonight and let the devs know what I find. I'll post more info here if I learn anything immediately helpful.

For users who are getting poor quality in their final renders, I haven't seen that happen yet. I think more info and project files will be required. If you can't post the files here, be sure to send them to Lost Marble. If they don't see it, they can't fix it.

[Greenlaw]

I just checked my photoshop image mode, it's 8-bit.
But under my image property, I see this

Yeah, that's optimal for Moho, so you're good there.

I'm not sure why your display and render results would look that differently though. In my lunchtime test, my display preview looks a little 'chunky' but it's not nearly as bad as in your posted example, and my colors look correctly matched in display and render versions.

Have to get back to work now, but I'll continue testing tonight. (I'll post test examples and system specs then.)

[cherrytomato]

I just checked my photoshop image mode, it's 8-bit.
But under my image property, I see this

Yeah, that's optimal for Moho, so you're good there.

I'm not sure why your display and render results would look that differently though. In my lunchtime test, my display preview looks a little 'chunky' but it's not nearly as bad as in your posted example, and my colors look correctly matched in display and render versions.

Have to get back to work now, but I'll continue testing tonight. (I'll post test examples and system specs then.)

Thanks for checking it up for me. The moho screenshot's color is different is because of the opacity i set for drawing over. It's not end of the world when it looks chunky, but it would be good if it looks clear for accuracy especially when it comes to details.

[Greenlaw]

Hi cherrytomato,

Whoops! Sorry, I was responding to two threads with overlapping issues and got a little mixed up in my reply. Hopefully, what I wrote wasn't too confusing.

The other thread is located here...

https://lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 3&start=30

I don't know if that helps at all (probably not,) but it might clear up some of the confusion with my post.

[SimplSam]

From another conversation (New GPU Menu Settings ???) - there appears to be a current Edit display quality issue particularly noticeable with larger - wider images. The image should Render OK.

[Greenlaw]

Yeah, I think you're right, Moho might be caching the image at the wrong resolution or intentionally caching a half-res image to improve performance.

IMO, if it's doing this intentionally, the user should have the option to cache it at full res when they need it.

In my test, the image was only slightly larger than the project's output region, but it displayed at what appeared to be half-res. I'll have to try the same image at a reduced 'just smaller than output' size and see if I get the full res for that version.

[cherrytomato]

Yeah, I think you're right, Moho might be caching the image at the wrong resolution or intentionally caching a half-res image to improve performance.

IMO, if it's doing this intentionally, the user should have the option to cache it at full res when they need it.

In my test, the image was only slightly larger than the project's output region, but it displayed at what appeared to be half-res. I'll have to try the same image at a reduced 'just smaller than output' size and see if I get the full res for that version.

I have no idea now. I tried different sizes, jpg and png, all look "chunky" after import.

[cherrytomato]

From another conversation (New GPU Menu Settings ???) - there appears to be a current Edit display quality issue particularly noticeable with larger - wider images. The image should Render OK.

I don't need that layer to be rendered. I use it to draw over, break down all the parts.

[SimplSam]

OK - hence "reference images". Hopefully they will get this sorted soon.

One thing you can try is to position and render preview just the reference image, then save it as PNG, then import that back into the project.

I have done a few tests and it looks, not perfect, but significantly better than the original. p.s. Project @ 1920x1080 seemed to work best.

[cherrytomato]

OK - hence "reference images". Hopefully they will get this sorted soon.

One thing you can try is to position and render preview just the reference image, then save it as PNG, then import that back into the project.

I have done a few tests and it looks, not perfect, but significantly better than the original. p.s. Project @ 1920x1080 seemed to work best.

Thank you. I just tried. It's slightly better. But I realized the color turns out a bit darker than photoshop png and jpg files. It's not an issue for me, I pick the color from the original file.

[Greenlaw]

I imported a scaled-down version of my test image (smaller than the output area,) and compared it with the full-size version (larger than the output) already imported.

It appears the scaled-down version is displayed more correctly than the original large version, that is, it's less chunky on the screen but I don't think it's quite 1:1 with the original. Both versions render equally sharp.

I think, depending on how large the image is, Moho is creating a 'half-res' display version and maybe even a 'quarter-res' display version for extra large images, probably to improve performance. And when the imported image is small enough to fit in the output region, it keeps the image 1:1, but this may still be a display copy of the image and slightly degraded.

This is just guessing though, and not particularly helpful to this situation.

[cherrytomato]

I imported a scaled-down version of my test image (smaller than the output area,) and compared it with the full-size version (larger than the output) already imported.

It appears the scaled-down version is displayed more correctly than the original large version, that is, it's less chunky on the screen but I don't think it's quite 1:1 with the original. Both versions render equally sharp.

I think, depending on how large the image is, Moho is creating a 'half-res' display version and maybe even a 'quarter-res' display version for extra large images, probably to improve performance. And when the imported image is small enough to fit in the output region, it keeps the image 1:1, but this may still be a display copy of the image and slightly degraded.

This is just guessing though, and not particularly helpful to this situation.

Thank you for helping me out. I hope Moho can let us to choose the resolution, it will be benefit the hand drawing in moho.