How to increase size layer interface? (More Questions)

[Popa]

This is how it looks before render:


After:

Hmm...so, it looks okay in preview but renders chunky? That's a new one to me.

Are you exporting PSD from Krita? If so, what are your export settings?

It's been a while since I used Krita with Moho, but I'll check it out tonight.

You mean export settings from Krita to Moho? I havent changed anything, just basic I guess. PSD
I'm gonna redo the layer in question and see the result. Everything else seems fine

[Greenlaw]

Yeah, that's all I meant, regular export. I just tried the normal export myself and didn't see any special options. (Advanced mode offers some extra options, but it's for rescaling or changing dpi, and we don't want to mess with that here.)

[Hoptoad]

The red shoes seem fine, only the legs are wonky. Do you have a brush enabled for the strokes of the leg shapes? I could simulate that result with a brush if I increased its spacing.

[Popa]

Yeah, that's all I meant, regular export. I just tried the normal export myself and didn't see any special options. (Advanced mode offers some extra options, but it's for rescaling or changing dpi, and we don't want to mess with that here.)

I used animation preview which prevented me from seeing a clear picture because of movement. Just 'preview' like you mentioned is much better, sadly it shows there once again the problem. The picture looks clear but after render it goes downhill for my lower legs. New layer which I replaced with old one doesnt help.
There is good news on my part. Im seeing much better quality when I lower the scale on my img, everything turns sharper except my legs. lol God these lower legs are annoying.

Just to confirm, your option "preview" shows us the rendered version right?

[Greenlaw]

FYI, Animation Preview can't be used to preview final render quality. This method uses Moho's display renderer, and it is only intended for previewing animation in real-time playback, not for evaluating render quality. As a result, the image quality will look only as good as what you currently see in the Workspace. As a matter of fact, the render quality can look worse depending on your display resolution and window size. (This is normal, btw, at least in Moho 13.5.5 and earlier. I haven't tested this in Moho 14 yet, but for now, assuming it's the same.)

To properly test the final render quality, you need to use the Preview... command. (Ctrl-R)

Even then, there may be slight differences in AA quality between a Preview render and the actual final quality render, but the difference should be very slight and generally not noticeable.

[Greenlaw]

Here's a comparison of what you should expect to see. This art is an imported PSD created in Krita, 8-bits per channel with a transparent background...



As mentioned earlier, Preview Animation is only for quickly previewing animation, and the image quality is not meant to be final. In fact, in order to render the preview animation quickly, the image quality may be degraded compared to the Workspace's display quality.

To check render quality, you must use the Preview... command, which applies the final processes and effects to the image, and should look better than what you see in the workspace.

For Final quality renders, I always use Moho Exporter, but Export Animation should be fine too. (Moho Exporter has more render options, like being able to break out Layer Comps with a click.)

If your final renders look degraded compared to the original artwork, I'm not sure what's going on. It really shouldn't do that.

[Popa]

Here's a comparison of what you should expect to see...

Thank you for clarifying that. My render or preview does exactly the opposite, it ruins my image. I produced some videos yesterday and confirmed that.

Here is how my workshop looks like. 720x960 scaling, one lower leg is thicker because I used a different brush now, but with no succes.



Here is my render.

[Hoptoad]

. . .one lower leg is thicker because I used a different brush now, but with no succes.

What happens when you choose NO BRUSH, and only use the basic stroke?

[Popa]

. . .one lower leg is thicker because I used a different brush now, but with no succes.

What happens when you choose NO BRUSH, and only use the basic stroke?

I will test that out tonight. Im very sorry for slow reply, short on time these last 2 days. I did find out maybe this is scaling related afterall.

I took only the pants and made it as big as possible on my workplace and it looks fine now.



For some reason my lower legs take the biggest hit when it comes to scaling, by far the biggest, meanwhile it has the same elements as my other layers, nothing special was added.
My true size for my character design goes like 2500x2000, no matter what scaling after that I cant make it work, meanwhile other layers are adjusting fine. What makes this even more odd is that it looks better before render on my workplace.

[Daxel]

This is just speculation, but I feel like this could be related to the issue with poor/pixelated rendering of Moho brushes: viewtopic.php?p=213897&hilit=brush+pixelated#p213897

Because in both cases the rendering looks bad but the workspace looks perfect. And in both cases scaling up helps. Also both are rendering bitmap textures.

I hope that is actually true and Moho devs can kill those two birds with one stone soon enough.

[Greenlaw]

Hi,

I experimented with this last night to make a report to the devs, but my results were still in the 'not bad' category. I made a 1920 x 1080 project and created UHD, FHD, and HD-sized versions of the same art and imported them as PNGs. The UHD looks slightly degraded (maybe displaying at half res,) but was, IMO, perfectly suitable as a preview image since the output quality was rendering at the original res. That said, if the lower-res display preview is intentional, I still think this mode should be optional, as the feature is in many animation programs. The FHD (same size as the project) and HD images appeared slightly degraded but, IMO, sharp enough for tracing.

I'm not trying to minimize the issues discussed here because examples are posted here and elsewhere of very low-quality display previews. I'm just saying I haven't been able to reproduce the lower-res display issue to that extreme. I'll submit a ticket for the devs to check out this thread and evaluate what may be going on.

Tip: For tracing images, try the Select Tracing Image... command from under Window. This places a non-layer overlay you can use for tracing. I don't like using this method because it doesn't allow me to transform the image when I need to, but maybe the display quality is higher than when using a regular image layer for tracing. I don't know if this method is better, but it would be worth a try if you need a higher-quality display image for precise tracing.

Hope this helps. Off to submit a ticket now.

[Maestral]

Here is how my workshop looks like. 720x960 scaling, one lower leg is thicker because I used a different brush now, but with no succes.

I think the line on the right shin could serve as a clue to such pixelization.
It looks to me like this line has some variations. Regarding both - width and "transparency" or colourization hence, when rendered in lower resolution, AA and similar are clashing over nearest neighbour (i.e.).

These artefacts are oddly "localized". One would expect the gradients to ruin the appearance but they look rather neat along with other outlines.
zoom from rendered image

[Popa]

Hope this helps. Off to submit a ticket now.

I lost my sanity trying to solve this. I suggest I send you psd file with all the layers of my pants.

I did find couple of things that might interest you. Just to summ things up.
- Problem occurs both in 13.5 and 14 pro.
- basic brushes were used in krita
- I've tried using different brushes or colors with no succes.

New findings:
- Moho renders most of the lines or objects fine just nothing that looks like my lower leg. Its like the devil has come to torture me just for this part.
Here is when I lost my mind:



I've tried to redraw my lower leg from scratch but as soon as it starts to look like a leg, it all goes downhill.

All logic for me went out of the window. I lack basic knowledge to see a pattern.

- I accidentaly made it work one time but thats because I drew something on my right foot while I was on my left leg layer. So 2 distant elements sharpens a layer in this case.



It's worth noting before I exported my psd file of my character design, I cropped my character layers so that all accidental lines outside the characters are deleted. I dont think this plays any part but I dont know where to look anymore. Hopefuly you will acept my psd file.

[Popa]

To add more salt to the wound, Moho renders all lines perfectly inside the layer.

[synthsin75]

Hopefully you do share the PSD with someone, so they can actually investigate it.