Road map for Moho

[ggoblin]

I don't like cross-posting, but I posted this in a discussion in the 'not-so-frequented' scripting forum, regarding the new ownership of Moho. I think its a discussion that needs to be had, especially with input from the new (original) owners of Moho. I know as a newbie it not my place to initiate anything, but here goes..


Different users have different needs and expectations of the software.

Professional animators are using Moho solely for 2d character animation as its the best software for that. They have a suit of other software they can leverage for all other apsects of animation and production where those software excel.

One person teams creating animations for social media, etc. don't always have that luxury or skill set, and are relying on Moho as a one stop animation solution all for their needs. They do not need the very best software in any one specific area, but they need something that is competent in a wide range of applications and has a simple, fast workflow they can leverage to produce animations quickly on their own.

I think at one stage Moho managed both, but over the years, with heavy competition on its heels, it has focused just on what it excels at - character animation. This worries me, I am not hopeful that things like the text engine, the particle system, sound and video handling, basic 3d etc. which are bread an butter needs for social media projects, will ever be updated.

I think the new owners need to share with us their road map of their plans for Moho so then we all know where we stand.

[Hoptoad]

I would rather pay a monthly subscription for Moho instead of $399.
As long as it's not too high.

[JoelMayer]

Ooo boy, I'm guessing both of you are in the minority

IMO, LM has been doing a great job since they took over! I mean only look at all the social media activity with webinars and so on and so forth plus the very frequent updates. I think in a way they have to catch up on two years wasted by the former owners but I mean it's in a great state and I think having Cartoon Saloon so close at bay to give them Input and basically beta test new features in a production environment definitely is also a good proposition.

Now they're back at Annecy even, so I think the future of Moho looks bright. It probably needs that "umph" release of a version 14 with some things ironed out but I'm really confident that that will happen.

Since its main selling point has always been the rigging feature, its predestined to be used as a character animation tool. I doubt it will ever be able to be as fully-featured for more motion graphics type things like After Effects but for sure it complements it really well.

I think what's really important to remember is for Moho to win doesn't mean any other software has to lose. I.e. I doubt Toon Boom will be de-throned as the de-facto standard in TV animation for the forseeable future but, as you said, Moho has its own target audience of smaller teams and individuals, which is a really nice market as well. I think one untapped potential for Moho is in Gaming actually. I think if they polish up the Unity export function and maybe add some more for other popular engines they'd be a very valid alternative to something like Spine, which more or less works the same way but doesn't have any vector tools.

But time will tell I'm hoping they make enough revenue to keep them afloat! You never know with these niche software markets.

[Greenlaw]

I don't think a road map is necessary. From what I've observed when other software companies post a road map, the user response can become a big PR headache for them. I think Mike and Victor are both too busy to deal with that, and I'd rather they stay focused on just making Moho better and even more useful to all of us. Their relationship with animators (pro and hobbyist) and various animation studios around the world informs them on what's needed, so I trust them to bring new features and improvements we can all use.

That said, it would be cool to get occasional sneak peeks into whatever they're working on. They've done that in the past so maybe we'll see some cool teaser videos in the future. But if not, I can respect that.

As for Moho's future, I'd like to see improvements and enhancements made to features we already have, like...

- better working Freehand/Blob Brush
- enhancements to the FBF workflow (actually, better Freehand and Blob Brush would be the biggest enhancement for FBF)
- export/import for Layer Comps
- project specific output path and filenames
- Layer Comps for special output (i.e., strokes only, fills only, buffer data (motion, depth, shape/style IDs (like Cryptomatte))
- support for higher color bit depth.
- EXR support (to incorporate the above.)
- Better management of Bones, Styles, and Actions.

New features are fun but being able to work smarter and faster is going to be more appreciated by animators (especially the ones who do this for a living.)

That's all. Should be 'easy' right? Guys? Guys?

[alanthebox]

I would rather pay a monthly subscription for Moho instead of $399.
As long as it's not too high.

One of the most attractive things about Moho (which wooed me over from Adobe/Animate) was the ability to purchase the software outright. From a business standpoint, I can certainly appreciate the desire to have a steady revenue stream to fund future development, but as a consumer I have subscription fatigue. At, say, $30/month, I would have paid $1,800 to rent this software over the last 5 years. No thanks!

[JoelMayer]

Maybe there is a balance to be found in having upgrade cycles of like every 2 years where a new full version comes out that is paid like in the good ol' days.

I'd add to the list that i just would like to see more streamlined ways of re-using/duplicating parts of i.e. a character including all its smartbones and so on so that you'd only have to rig half a character basically. Also a sort of auto-smart action generator that just mirrors the point transformations would be useful i.e. for something like a symmetrical front head turning from left to right (then you'd only have to set up the turn to one side and the software would calculate the other way by itself).

And just get rid of some long standing quirks on macOS with the interface becoming sluggish unless started in low res mode as well as update the viewport/render engine.

[Greenlaw]

Kuzkuz (aka MultRush, aka Eugene) created MR Transform Rig Tools, which addresses a lot of the issues for reusing and flipping rig parts, both for the current character and for other characters. It's pretty amazing. This tool even works with Vitruvian Bones!

More info here...

https://mohoscripts.com/script/mr_transform_rig_tool

For mirroring rig parts with actions (a left arm to a right arm for example,) start watching at 1:35.

For repurposing parts with actions in a different character rig, watch from around 2:05.

[JoelMayer]

Yes Greenlaw, i know of this script and while i appreciate the effort and definitely think it's a step in the right direction, the usability is just not as streamlined as it could be compared to if those functionalities would be integrated into the vanilla Moho user interface (a sentiment that has been shared by some other Moho users as well). I'll definitely have to look into it more in the meantime though.

It's definitely a very important area where Moho could use some improvement. That's one of the things i really like about the Node editor in TB, which makes duplicating elements very easy.

[Greenlaw]

Maybe it would be better if it was integrated but definitely try it out.

I've only scratched the surface with this tool but so far it works works remarkably well and it appears to let me complete a few tasks that normally take me hours to do in 'vanilla' Moho. (I admit I've only tested it on a basic setup and haven't' used it in production yet, so grain of salt...for now.)

Actually, check out all of Kuzkuz's tools. IMO, they're essential if you use Moho in a production environment with tight deadlines.

[JoelMayer]

Sounds good, thanks for the heads up ^^

[Hoptoad]

One of the most attractive things about Moho (which wooed me over from Adobe/Animate) was the ability to purchase the software outright. From a business standpoint, I can certainly appreciate the desire to have a steady revenue stream to fund future development, but as a consumer I have subscription fatigue. At, say, $30/month, I would have paid $1,800 to rent this software over the last 5 years. No thanks!

$30 per month? Gasp!

If I were to suggest a number, I'd suggest $10 per month. . .with an option for a permanent license if you paid 30 months at once.

[ggoblin]

you are in the minority

I think you are right. Going back in the forum 3-4 years I see active users posting on using Moho for motion graphics, but I don't see those users on the forum anymore. Perhaps they outgrew Moho in their needs for a more rounded all purpose animation solution and moved on?

Its a shame, as I think Moho offers a very efficient workflow, ideal for single person/small teams to produce animations on a very tight timeline and budget. The last project I produced with Moho was a 2 minute animated talking head explainer video. It took about 8 days: 3-3.5 days nailing the script/voice-over, 0.5-1 day story-boarding, 3.5-4 days Moho (including animating, creating transitions between scenes, motion graphics/text effects, lip-syncing voice-over and adding sound effects), 0.25-0.5 day in video editor, adding subtitles, background music, watermarks, etc. I don' t think I could have managed to deliver in that time frame without Moho.

But at the same time I need to know that the features in Moho that I depend on for my animation will not be abandoned, so for me a road map is very useful.

[synthsin75]

But at the same time I need to know that the features in Moho that I depend on for my animation will not be abandoned, so for me a road map is very useful.

Abandoned? Aside from the very buggy 13.0, nothing have ever been abandoned. If that's what you call others not sharing your development priorities, that's a bit exaggerated.

[ggoblin]

I said abandoned, not discarded. Abandoned meaning left in its current condition without update. Lets hope I am wrong and they do update the text engine, the particle system, etc., but how many of these have been updated in the last say 10 years? Yes agreed its about development priorities.

[sang820]

R&D direction, this is an expensive topic! If anyone can invest $50 million in Mike, I'm sure he'll sit down and talk to you about the direction of R&D. However, we are just moho lovers, we can only hope that Moho will get better and better, we can only make wishes---the rest is left to Mike.