Moho Forum

I'm setting up some scenes with images, and i can see quite a bit of shimmering or also a kind of wobbling. Not sure if this really happens with vectors, or maybe not as much.

Here's a sample video, clearly visible with the wallpaper https://ufile.io/vgi7l and the smaller you make an image the worse it seems to be https://ufile.io/xa586

And also i thought I'd post this link https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic267155.aspx which i think is a similar issue being seen in another program. How is this best dealt with? Even slow camera movements show it.

Which version are you using?

I used to see a 'wobbly' effect in renders with deforming images in ASP 10 and maybe earlier releases of ASP 11. I reported it and the issue was fixed in a later release of 11 or maybe during the Moho 12 beta. Sorry, can't remember exactly when it was fixed but I haven't see the problem in all the time we've been using 12.

FYI, I first ran into the problem a few years ago when working on All Hail King Julien, which used a lot of painted textures. We eventually got a fix from the devs but, until that happened, I rendered the scenes double size and scaled them down. This seemed to minimize the artifact to the point where it wasn't that noticeable.

Also, make sure you enable Higher Quality Rendering for the image in the Layer Properties window. This option does something similar by rendering the textures double-size internally, and scaling down to 'normal' size before saving.

Note that both options above will slow down your renders. (Potentially 4x.)

The first suggestion should not be necessary if you're using Moho 12 since the 'wobble' artifact should be fixed, but the second one is a good idea if you want better aa quality within the textures.

I'm currently between 11.0 and 12.

Higher quality rendering does make a big difference, the only problem is though i don't see how to do this when using images as textures? I only see the option in separate image layer settings, not a vector layer with a texture effect. Any input on that? I appreciate all your advice.

If you haven't already done so, try the Extra Smooth Images option in the render options. This doesn't really fix the error but it helps minimize the artifacts. (At least it did when I ran into the issue at work a few years ago.)

I think the error was fixed during a later ASP 11 beta but I can't recall if the fix appeared in a public release of 11 or if it was rolled into Moho 12. If you have 12, see what happens when you render from there.

I checked my notes and it looks like this problem was fixed in build 21334, which was an old Moho 12 beta, not ASP 11.

So, yeah, you'll need to render from Moho 12 to see a proper fix.

Greenlaw wrote:So, yeah, you'll need to render from Moho 12 to see a proper fix.

I updated and that's fixed it. Seems a bit baffling to me that it took so long to fix that? Not sure why the vector layer settings don't just have a Higher quality rendering tick box like the image layers do, if using an image texture at least. Users of older versions would have to arrange all their images in place/size etc, instead of simply using an image texture because of the issue.

Welsh Jester wrote:I updated and that's fixed it. Seems a bit baffling to me that it took so long to fix that?

Glad to hear that worked for you!

As for why the problem existed for so long, I dunno. Apparently, nobody noticed or thought it was bad enough to ask for a fix. FWIW, I hadn't been using ASP for very long when I saw it, and the issue wasn't going to fly at the studio where I worked. Thankfully, Mike Clifton fixed it immediately after I sent him examples, and we haven't see the problem since. And to be fair, the fix was released with Moho 12 so it's been available for nearly two years now.

Not sure why the vector layer settings don't just have a Higher quality rendering tick box like the image layers do, if using an image texture at least. Users of older versions would have to arrange all their images in place/size etc, instead of simply using an image texture because of the issue.

That would be nice but, unfortunately, ASP 11 is pretty old at this stage and I don't think the devs are going back to update it. Personally, I'd rather see them use their limited resources making a future version of Moho better.

Anyway, if you see issues like this again, definitely send it in. This is just speculation but it seems possible that the fix to the Image Texture deformation in Moho 12 came about quickly because the software was getting a new custom mesh feature at the time, and maybe it was a lucky coincidence that I asked just as the devs were working on the mesh generation system. But regardless of timing, the devs obviously take every problem seriously and they will try to fix reported bugs as they can.

And when you send a report, be sure to send content, examples (i.e., marked up screen caps, renders or animations,) and detailed steps for reproducing the problem. I think providing this info was a big reason Mike was able to identify and fix the problem so quickly back then.

Good luck and happier animating!

I reported this way back in 2011 or before.
I made a big deal about it as I was contributing animation for a feature.
It was particularly apparent when the camera moved.
I know it was a concern and the problem was being chipped away at for some time .
I can't confirm that it has completely gone.
After testing one of the worst offending files from that project, I noticed two things.
The shimmer has reduced from the original render but is still present to a degree.
Turning on higher quality for a third test render did not change the results ( on that old file) from the second render.

Greenlaw wrote:That would be nice but, unfortunately, ASP 11 is pretty old at this stage and I don't think the devs are going back to update it. Personally, I'd rather see them use their limited resources making a future version of Moho better.

Anyway, if you see issues like this again, definitely send it in.

I think if bugs exist in older versions, especially ones that can mess up the image quality, they should be fixed too. But just my opinion, I'll be sure to report more stuff like this and similar issues to support though.

Chucky wrote:I made a big deal about it as I was contributing animation for a feature.
It was particularly apparent when the camera moved.
I know it was a concern and the problem was being chipped away at for some time .
I can't confirm that it has completely gone.
After testing one of the worst offending files from that project, I noticed two things.
The shimmer has reduced from the original render but is still present to a degree.
Turning on higher quality for a third test render did not change the results ( on that old file) from the second render.

The wobble of the wallpaper i had in the scene of the video i put a link to seems to be gone. Shimmering though i do notice some, i have an image of bricks and it's visible on those with camera movement. I think they are probably separate issues? Either way though it's much better for me than before, shame it wasn't fixed much earlier. I guess most people work with vector layers and maybe that's possibly why it has taken so long to fix the issues, since people wouldn't catch on to it.

Yep i can actually get it to shimmer quite badly if i shrink the images down enough https://ufile.io/1g3ys