A decent Polyline-style tool

[animatioNZ]

However, you can get similar results by adding more points in areas that require extra control.


Huh? I just don't get that. If I want to have as few points as possible to make the animating easier and smoother - then adding more points doesn't solve anything.

I think what LM is saying is that altering the way Moho handles points isn't possible. That's a shame, but fortunately I have a choice of which program to use for different jobs so when I need accurate drawings I can use something else, when I need rougher more casual style of drawing I can use Moho.

[Toontoonz]

LM:

"However, you can get similar results by adding more points in areas that require extra control."

Could you show a demo of this in action? I tried it and after adding between 5 and 10 points between the control points of the curve I wanted to straighten (just adding any points between the control points causes the line curves to shift off their original curve), making the new points all peaked, deleting them all but the two next to the original control points I was able to get somewhat of a straight line without effecting the curves on the other sides of the control points.

The multi-minute experience was like pushing a rope to straighten it out.

[Lost Marble]

Could you show a demo of this in action?

Here's a Moho file where I traced over a picture of your original shape:

http://www.lostmarble.com/misc/curves.moho

[Toontoonz]

Did you trace it or did you create all curved lines and then adjust the one to make it straight?
Tracing the shape is not a hard thing to do.
First draw the straight line then add the curved lines to it and adjust.

The excercise is not to trace something, but draw all the different curves in a shape then eliminate one or more lines and get each straight without effecting the curving the other lines in the shape.
How do you do that?

Even you said in a previous post it would take lots more points - where are they in the sample you gave?

[Lost Marble]

Did you trace it or did you create all curved lines and then adjust the one to make it straight?
Tracing the shape is not a hard thing to do.

I traced it because I was trying to recreate the same shape that you implied couldn't be done in Moho. I don't see how tracing is an issue - if you can do it by tracing, you can do it from scratch. Like I said, I was specifically trying to copy a shape you made earlier.

OK, here's another example:

http://www.lostmarble.com/misc/curves2.moho

There are four numbered outlines in this file.

1. The original shape. I just made this up out of a few points.
2. I drew a straight line connecting (welding) two of the points on the outline.
3. I used the Delete Edge tool to delete the edges protruding to the top-left of the shape. You can see that the curve segments to the two sides of the straight edge have changed shape slightly.
4. I added two new points near the ends of the straight edge to get the two segments I mentioned in step 3 back to their original shapes.

[Toontoonz]

You definitely need to add this demonstration to either Tutorial sections 1 or 2 (maybe part 2.1 welding)- you will be doing lots of people a favor that run into this situation and wonder how best to solve it.

Have you ever considered adding a new Forum subject here titled: Tutorials.
Where you (and others) can add tutorials on how to do different things in Moho that are not covered in the Manual. Such as performing this curve to straight line demonstration and the use of the different bone tools...

[jahnocli]

Have you ever considered adding a new Forum subject here titled: Tutorials.

This is an excellent idea!

[Voxel]

Can't you just import any artwork from illustrator/freehand/corel/canvas etc. etc. if you're not happy with the way moho treats it and tweak from there?

As I see it Moho isn't designed to be a vector illustration package and so provides the basic tools.

[Toontoonz]

Can't you just import any artwork from illustrator/freehand/corel/canvas etc. etc. if you're not happy with the way moho treats it and tweak from there?

Answer: Yes.
As long as it is a .ai version 8 (or maybe earlier) file.
If you add more points to your original drawing in your vector program that helps quite a bit that it does not distort as much coming into Moho. That is if you want to add more points. Some people claim it slows their previewing down, but it is something you have to test. I never really had a problem until it got into the thousands of control points.
The other problem is colors changing in Moho from the original drawing. However, you can change them in Moho. Just a pain in the butt to do all this tweaking.
Some people draw their characters in their vector program then trace it in Moho. Try it, it could be faster than the tweak, tweak, tweak method I do.
Most things I animate in Moho were first drawn in Adobe Illustrator.

[Lost Marble]

Here's another variation on my last example:

http://www.lostmarble.com/misc/curves3.moho

The purpose of the previous example was to show how to delete some edges and add extra points to maintain the old shape. This isn't always necessary. Sometimes it's just as easy to not delete the edges at all - just don't include them when filling the shape.

In the file above, I get the same end result as in my previous example, but I didn't have to add any extra points at all. Because curves are separate from the actual fills and outlines in Moho, you can have some curves that you work with that are never visible in the final output.

The upper-left shape is the same shape I showed before, but part of it will not appear in rendered output. The shape on the lower-right is the same, but I moved the two control points around to change the curvature of the segments next to the straight edge.

[Rasheed]

Am I correct in assuming that in basic-spline primitives you can use more than one point for the same curve, while in Bezier primitives, each curve has exactly one control point?

It would explain why imported AI files have more points in Moho than in the original AI file.

[Lost Marble]

Actually, both Illustrator and Moho use Bezier curves. They just expose them in different ways. A basic cubic Bezier curve has four control points: one at each end of the curve, and two in the middle. The two middle points don't necessarily (and very rarely do) lie on the curve itself.

In Moho, those two interior control points are moved around automatically. This simplifies the number of points you have to deal with for bones and animation, but gives you less control over each individual curve segment.

In both Illustrator and Moho, longer curves are created by joining up a bunch of cubic Bezier curves end-to-end.

The reason you get extra points when importing Illustrator files into Moho is because those two interior control points are hidden in Moho, the import function adds some extra curve segments to try to more accurately match the Illustrator curves.

[kingbones]

OK so you draw your ellipse, add one point to it it and it deforms.
The same applies using 'split curve'.

If you really treasure your ellipse or circle do the following:-

Make your ellipse or circle then duplicate the layer.
On the new layer add your point or weld your line to it.
It will distort.
Add and adjust new points using your original layer as the guide.
You mostly need 4 points.

This works also for the other challenge which was to have one part of a curved line straightened without distorting the curved part.

Draw your curve, copy the layer, straighten one part using the 'peak' tool,
re-curve the distorted section by adding and moving a point and referring to your guide layer. Keep but hide the guide layer as necessary.

[Genete]

Hi all!
I yant you to show other cross-efect of the way that AS / Moho uses "symetric curvature" discussed in this post.
Please download this file and test it.

http://es.geocities.com/genetita/moho/curvatura.zip

There are two curves with three point each. One of them CANNOT be rounded. Why? I know it, but i guess if any of you can answer me why cannot.

---------------------

Hola a todos!!
Quiero mostraros otro efecto cruzado de la manera en la que AS /Moho usa la "curvatura simétrica" discutida en esta conversación.
Por favor descargad este fichero y probadlo.

Hay dos curvas de tres puntos cada una. Una de ellas NO SE PUEDE redondear. Por que?. Yo lo se, pero me pregunto si alguno de ustedes puede contestarme porque no.
Saludos

[heyvern]

There are two curves with three point each. One of them CANNOT be rounded. Why? I know it, but i guess if any of you can answer me why cannot.

I don't understand what you want here.

The one is a continuous vector... the other is two separate vectors connected with the end points deleted... creating a "corner" that can't be "smoothed".

What is the question? If you want to smooth that corner disconnect and reconnect...

... or...

Extend each end of the vectors from the corner and connect them to the other side line. This gives you the same curve as if they are continuously connected.

-vern