Moho Forum

Greetings, fellow veteran. I myself started on Mac (and Paintbox) in 1993 and do design, illustration, and animation for a living. But in one point we're different: I already knew how to animate or draw or design before I ever used a computer. I think this may be the source for all your trouble. For me, software was just another tool to be learned.

Toon Boom is clearly based on concepts from traditional animation from the time before computers. For someone like me it becomes frustratingly confusing and opaque as I don't understand the approach.

Any software not based on traditional animation principles isn't about animation at all. It may be about programming (like Flash) or Game Design or assembling pre-fabricated movement snippets - but none of that is animation. If you don't know about animation, no software in the world will be able to help you.

Now with TB you've picked a very user-unfriendly specimen - I didn't understand it as well when I first used it. I recommend you have a look into TVPaint: that's frame-by-frame with a hands-on approach.

Lines should just snap in place and one should be able to fill any shape with colour

So, how does the software know where that place is you want the line snap to? What's the definition of a shape which can be filled? I assume you know Illustrator: create two overlapping shapes and try to fill just that overlapping part. Doesn't work that way. First you need to tell the program that the overlap is a distinct shape. It's the same with all software. Programmers can only put a certain amount of successful guessing into code.

I am sure vector based drawing tools can be made more intelligent than they are now. As they are, they are clumsy and a nuisance to use for someone who actually can draw. To rapidly draw a simple shape should not require all this tweaking and fiddling which is needed now.

"Vector based drawing" is a contradiction in itself. If you want to be successful in vector based design, you need to get used to constructing complex stuff from lots of simple elements.

It shouldn't be necessary to learn it

Sorry, if that's your approach to any new tool you might as well give up. You have to learn every day, succeed and fail, before you master any program.

Of course you can complain about a bad manual, or a clumsy user interface (well, ever had a look into a big 3D package? Compared to that everything else is simple), or functions which are hidden in an obscure sequence of actions. But never complain about having to learn, because that's the way of things.

I have worked with some bigger studio systems, like Animo (not AS) and Toonz, and ToonBoom very much goes into that direction, insofar it caters for one specific workflow which we could call the "studio pipeline". This paradigm is based on planning and hierarchy: there's a director who hands out tasks to the different animators and artists, he/she approves stuff in every stage, and you can't go on without that approval. In this workflow you also can't go back and make adjustments in a former stage of work.

AS and TVP are different. They allow the artist to always go back and change fundamental stuff - which is much better for me since I like to work intuitively. This also means they have their problems when integrated into a workflow with more artists.

As for a good UI, this always depends from the user's background. I had worked with Director, Flash, and AfterFX before, so AS' interface was familiar to me. Most of my students don't have this background, so it's interesting which parts of AS they don't understand immediately, although now I know how to explain it to them. This is a universal observation, I saw the same with graphic designers: it's obvious wether they played with stones and mud or just with plastic toys as kids. A child who constructed characters from acorns and sticks will grasp the idea of a skeleton immediately. A child who never made collages or didn't play much with building blocks will take longer to understand how to construct complex shapes in AI or AS.

Perhaps you'd be better off posting much if this on the Toon Boom forum.

Actually, it is better to have knowledge of traditional, paper and pencil animation before learning software solutions. And Google serves those who want a shortcut. So complaints about terminology is a bit nit-picky.

Anime Studio is probably one of the most intuitive animation programs out there, which is why users often say it is fun to use. I do see your point about Toon Boom, as I find it very convoluted. But ultimately, you are dealing with inertia, both from traditional animators and software animators, who are all quite use to the terminology and technology (and let's face it, both are the price of admission when learning anything new).

You're not likely to persuade people to make changes they do not see as a problem. So your only real option is to learn to program yourself. When AS wouldn't do some things I needed, I started to learn programming myself. I had no previous programming knowledge, just perseverance and determination (which is ultimately what any learning endeavor requires).

Don't get me wrong. You're more than free to keep at it. It just seems like a subject that is just spinning its wheels.

I just think that incremental suggestions and development is more productive than, perhaps, pie-in-the-sky sweeping innovation (unless you have to talents to bring them about yourself). Incremental changes actually work by maintaining the forward momentum of the existing inertia and diverting with smaller nudges. This method also has an easier time engaging the bulk of the existing users.

LOL

Well, that was unexpected. I would have thought the forum would still be useful to help learn the software, but if this rant was the only purpose being here...

It appears Elvis has left the building.

G.

He's taken his talents to the Anime Studio Facebook page.

drumlug13 wrote:He's taken his talents to the Anime Studio Facebook page.

And his posts. I apparently missed what caused that to happen. Too bad, sounds like it would have been a funny meltdown.

Danimal wrote: I apparently missed what caused that to happen.

Me too. It's a rare day like today that I kind of miss "scabiebabies."

But only a little bit kind of.

Oh, it wasn't a real entertaining sort of meltdown or anything. Just a long-winded fellow who apparently took some mild criticism out of proportion. You didn't really miss much.

Believe me, the entertaining ones do not remove themselves so quickly.