ASP 10 Drawing tools question

[Pesto]

Hi,
I am currently an TB Studio user and was thinking about getting ASPro 10. My main issue of the past was the drawing tools. I have done work in Flash and other vector programs as well and I'm comfortable with the work flow. How are the new drawing tools and are there any improvements to the older ones? I tried the demo of v9.5 (or maybe it was v9.0) and found it a little frustrating. I really want to do all my drawing (for cut-out style) and animation in one program.

Thanks for the advice in advance,
Chris

[ddrake]

Here's a video on some of the newer drawing features in 10. My guess is that if you're used to Flash or Illustrator, there will still be frustrations because the point/curve system still works the same way. They've made improvements and added a couple nifty drawing tools, but haven't changed the way AS drawing works.

[dueyftw]

Your not going to like the drawing tools. The add point tool works the best for copying art work. Once you give up the idea just tracing with the freehand too and stay with the add point tool everything comes together in AS.
The best way to do cutout style in AS is to mix raster images. (main body parts) And vector for small things with lots of movement (eyes, mouth, hands)

Dale

[Pesto]

Thanks to you both. It's a shame that they don't have the necessary drawing tools. Oh well, I'll be checking back for v10.5 or v11 I guess

[wizaerd]

There's been a great may users who successfully use the drawing tools to great effect. They may be a bit odd, and not necessarily the same as found in standard illustration applications, but with enough practice, one can come to grips with them. What do you deem as the necessary drawing tools? Because there really isn't much you can't do, once you become more familiar with them.

[dueyftw]

Thanks to you both. It's a shame that they don't have the necessary drawing tools. Oh well, I'll be checking back for v10.5 or v11 I guess

There is a very steep learning curve with AS because the drawing tools do not work like most other art software. If you know Photoshop you can draw in gimp, flash, Toonboom etc. If you expect to draw in the same manner your going to get frustrated very fast. AS has rules on what can be done and what can not be done. Most problems have workarounds.

Dale

[Danimal]

Your not going to like the drawing tools.

...until you get used to them. Then you'll wonder how you ever used anything else.

[AmigaMan]

I'm with Danimal. I find nothing wrong with the drawing tools in AS. I have other Vector drawing software but I prefer to use AS even for none animation artwork at times.

[heyvern]

I too have been using Anime Studio for print work. For some strange reason, I can create 10 times faster in Anime Studio than in Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator is great but it just has so much "stuff" and so many "things". Anime Studio is so simple and fast.

The other thing is that compared to Illustrator the ability to have shapes share an edge just makes things ten times easier. In Illustrator or flash, each fill shape has it's own complete shape. You have to double up edges. Anime Studio can have ONE edge for two or more shapes which is awesome.

I will admit that I often open Anime Studio files in Adobe Illustrator for final export. Mostly I simply export to PSD layers but sometimes I just want small clean vector EPS.
To get EPS vector format files out of Anime Studio does require using Flash export to a single frame. I then open that in Flash and export to AI. Open that in AI and clean up if needed and export to EPS.

Here are some samples of print work I've done over the years using Anime Studio/Moho. I used Anime Studio, Photoshop and Illustrator (as described above):

arsenic_old_lace.jpg
dearly_departed_poster.jpg
doubt_poster_final.jpg
harvey_poster_final2.jpg
mineola_twins_poster2.jpg

[Danimal]

arsenic_old_lace.jpg

They're all good, but this one in particular is great!

[heyvern]

arsenic_old_lace.jpg

They're all good, but this one in particular is great!

Thanks!

That was the first print illustration I did using Anime Studio. I pretty much drew these "freehand" in Anime Studio with the Add Point tool. It's a weird way to draw but it's 25 years of old habits. I exported to PSD (Photoshop) from Anime Studio because I hadn't learned the Flash export to AI "trick" yet. I laid out the whole thing in Anime Studio with each character group in it's own top group layer. When you export to PSD each top layer is it's own layer in photoshop. I set the resolution in Anime Studio high enough for print at the same pixel dimensions for my print output.

The best part of this type of illustrating, is that I am able to add a few bones to characters to adjust it to fit the illustration. Not completely rigged, maybe a bone here and there for arms or the head or whatever. That's something you can't do in Illustrator! No bones! Text and title were laid out in photoshop.

I have sometimes skipped the Flash AI conversion and just export straight to EPS from the Flash single frame export out of Anime Studio. The problem is that when exporting to Flash, the variable width strokes are converted to "shapes" but only on the parts that change width. The rest of the stroke is just a stroke in Flash/AI format with filled shapes where they taper to a point. It's a bit of a pain to edit these shapes in AI. Plus all the "connected" shapes that shared edges become their own shapes. The file is pretty complex compared to what the Anime Studio file is, but not any more complex than if it was drawn from scratch in AI. One good thing... the conversion to bezier vector from Anime Studio is PERFECT compared to the other way around.

p.s. I keep pushing for EPS export in Anime Studio but apparently exporting for print is not high on the list for an animation program.

Sorry if I hijacked the topic... but I feel the drawing tools in Anime Studio are fantastic. Sure there could always be improvements but the aren't that bad. I think the MAIN complaint is not having bezier curve handles. i don't want those in Anime Studio... they would be difficult to animate easily. It would quadruple the amount of key frames and animation time.

[ddrake]

Sorry if I hijacked the topic... but I feel the drawing tools in Anime Studio are fantastic. Sure there could always be improvements but the aren't that bad. I think the MAIN complaint is not having bezier curve handles. i don't want those in Anime Studio... they would be difficult to animate easily. It would quadruple the amount of key frames and animation time.

I also apologize if the topic has strayed a little, but I'm glad to hear other people saying this. For a while I thought I was the only one who loved how the drawing tools worked in AS. Years ago I had attempted some vector drawing and animation and started feeling like a bad artist, (let alone bad animator) To this day I do not find bezier curves intuitive nor manageable for some reason.

I've seen the "drawing" issue come up many times before, and I think one thing that hurts Anime Studio in grabbing more users is simply in the misunderstanding that AS drawing tools are "bad" or "limiting" to artists who are already comfortable with programs like Illustrator. The reality is that Anime Studio may force your hand a little bit if you create artwork directly in program, but the purpose is to streamline the point information so that the animation process is less intensive.

[heyvern]

I've seen the "drawing" issue come up many times before, and I think one thing that hurts Anime Studio in grabbing more users is simply in the misunderstanding that AS drawing tools are "bad" or "limiting" to artists who are already comfortable with programs like Illustrator. The reality is that Anime Studio may force your hand a little bit if you create artwork directly in program, but the purpose is to streamline the point information so that the animation process is less intensive.

Couldn't have said it better. I've been trying to get this across to people. It's the "difference" that makes it "better". I keep saying if Anime Studio had bezier curves it would REDUCE it's animation abilities... make it harder to animate not easier.

Yes, the drawing abilities would be just like Illustrator and Flash, but then you would have to ANIMATE those points. The curve handles would have to be key framed. Imagine all the extra keys to manage. I like sacrificing some of the benefits of bezier to have the easy manageable animation of the curves and points.

I can assure you... if Flash bezier curves could be animated as easily as Anime Studio I would never have even bothered to look for something else and would never have found Moho. I've owned Flash as long as it's been around. Never liked how it animated.

[Danimal]

To this day I do not find bezier curves intuitive nor manageable for some reason.

Because they're not, that's the reason. That some people learn to use them doesn't make them good. They're horrible. The point system in Anime Studio is miles ahead in terms of being intuitive and getting the job done. The problem is people get so used to doing things the complicated, difficult way that the simple, sensible way seems wrong.

[wizaerd]

I have to disagree. The points in Anime Studio are difficult to work with to get precisely what you want. Are they workable? Sure. But are they precise? No, they are not. Curvature of a point currently is guesswork, with no precise control over it. They work well enough, but they could work a great deal better. And I'd be willing to bet, that under the covers the animation system is tracking and controlling invisible control handles similar to a bezier, thereby giving the impression that the lack of bezier is making it easier to animate. Because that curvature is being stored and tracked somehow...