Using 3D backgrounds for 2D Characters?

[warspite]

Hi All. I am on the 30 Day Trial of AS pro, so pretty new to the scene. I am looking to use ASP to produce cartoons for Church applications. So, need ways of creating characters and settings from biblical times, among other things.

Been on the Content paradise site to see if I can get any characters and backgrounds that might give me a kick start. Didn't find much, but Meshbox do some lovely 3D stuff for Ancient Egypt.

Would it look very strange to put AS 2D figures on to these 3D backgrounds? Or should I stick to 2D offerings such as the Loopy Desert? As a beginner, I suspect I might be better to keep things simple...

[moorsel]

Together with my son I created an animation that plays in the same era and perhaps in a comparable scenery. As my son is not that old, we kept it simple and mixed hand created characters with photos.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx6dazpIYn8&fmt=18

See also this thread on the forum:

viewtopic.php?t=9717&highlight=

PS although it plays in the same era and in the same scenery, our animation is perhaps less biblical: it is about a war between the romans and the egyptians. Please don't be offended if you think it is too violent, it was only meant to inspire you.

[warspite]

That was amazingly effective. The lesson for me is that your 3D background structures did not look out of place, as they were in the same style as the foreground characters.

Thanks for being sensitive. I am an ex Navy man, so no need to be over careful.

[DK]

I did this a few years ago combining 2D Anime Studio characters with Lightwave 3D backgrounds.


http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=iK0S3O-qmmg

Cheers
D.K

[human]

Usually, on traditional feature films, the backgrounds are far more painterly and detailed than the cel characters.

Pick up any book on Disney or Warner Brothers animation, or even newer books about Batman animation, for instance.

However, you want your backgrounds to harmonize with with your cel characters, and a photograph won't do.

Your backgrounds should make an artistic statement and they need to have color harmony with the characters, while being somewhat muted to let the characters steal the show.

[heyvern]

I plan to use Animation Master backgrounds for use with ASP characters on one of my projects. It just makes sense. I can produce beautiful 3d rendered stills with AM pretty quickly... maybe with some minor small animated portions (like smoke out of a chimney, sparkly particles etc).

This is a great idea to mix the two I think anyway.

-vern

[FCSnow]

I'm also ex-navy (US Navy)

I would be so dazzeled by the glittered and pazzaz of 3D animation. Its still just a 2D image in the end. AS has a 3D component which, if you use it right, looks just as good as any 3D animation software.
Example: A test animation of mine on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LatYK7w1dDM

I also did a piece for my church for Christmas and New Years Eve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgVHbuaFhmA

I'm also teaching the kids in my church how to use AS software. Kids can be both inventive and creative once they learn how to animate pictures.

I don't know how good an artist you may be, but I prefer to do my own artwork. But there's nothing stopping you from using the internet to find images to use or trace. Again, don't forget the kids. They'd love to involved in any animation project.

Good Luck!

F.C.Snow

[warspite]

Thanks everyone. Really helpful. As I see it so far:

1. It can work artistically to use 2D characters on a 3D background, and there are many professional examples. Actually a good opportunity to use the 3D facilities of AS to move through the scenery (e.g. the scenes of Rome and Jerusalem - great establishing shots). I did notice that the star-trek spoof (loved the 'pizza' star cruiser) seemed to have 3d-like characters as well. My (probably unfounded) concern has been that that real 2d figures would look like cardboard cutouts.

2. The background needs to match colour and style with the characters, and should not draw attention away from the foreground action. I imagine good use of 'depth of field' could help here.

3. It is acceptable for the bg to be more elaborate than the characters, but at the extreme, a near photographic scene would probably not work well with minimally drawn figures.

4. There are big opportunities to involve children and young people with cartoon creation. A real revelation.

5. People on this forum are incredibly helpful

6. It's OK to be an old sea dog.

Many thanks

Ray

[Rhoel]

When the Wind Blows used a physical model set as backgrounds, photographed then those images re-filmed with the 2d Characters. They even had pans and tracks through the model - the technique works well.

There is no reason why if you are good with model building why the same approach can't be used - dSLR's are used extensively in claymation (Tim Burton's Corpse Bride being a fine example).

I have also composited a 2d/3d hybrid for another animator. There is one key issue to be aware of - disappearing points. In 2D, its easy to plan the scene on paper and have the horizons and DP in the right places. With 3D (model or CGI), it is very easy to forget this, and have different vanishing points: When you come to composite, the shot simply doesn't sit right. Usually the reason is the disappearing points are off. If you have a 3d program then a re-render may only take a few hours to fix. But if its a panning sequence, the 3hours * 175 images in the pan will seriously affect the project: been there, not funny.

If you do not have a 3D engine, look at Blender - its free Open source and the quality is very high. They released 2.48a in December and I love it. Learning curve is astronomical (but then, most good 3D tools are). Blender is the page to start on.

Just remember that adding 3D to the project will considerably increase the workload and time to complete. In 3D, everything has to be modeled, materials created and attached, lighting set, reset and reset again, the camera focal length/depth of field fiddled around with to make it work, etc. A 2D background, using photoshop and/or illustrator/AS, can be constructed in quarter of the time.

best of luck.

[warspite]

Thanks Rhoel

I suspect in these early days I would be wise to avoid complexity where possible, so your words of caution re 3D are appreciated. I think I will get to grips with AS first before episode 2 of the Corpse Bride

But it is good to know what is possible and how to go about it. Many thanks indeed.