New to AS(F), Initial Thoughts from an Illustrator user.

Gametrog · Post by **Gametrog** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:52 pm

Greetings. I purchased AS Debut 6 for the Mac last weekend. I have gone through the manual/tutorials twice in an attempt to learn, and have been practicing every day

I LOVE animation, but I'm a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to style. Give me Bugs Bunny over anime any day. I prefer frame by frame quality vs. excessive pans and zooms.

As far as AS Debut goes, Im in the middle of the road right now, many of my issues stem from the fact I've been using Adobe Illustrator bezier technology since 1987.

• Debut DOES NOT import Illustrator (very upsetting, retail package did not mention this). Pro does...

• The drawing tools are a long ways from any Illustrator (corel) like program.

• No real bezier pen tool. Everything is click to click. There are no handle bars to adjust curves.

• The EXCESSIVE tool switching should be fixed. Switching from Select to Move to Color to Scale, to Select... is very redundant. Most of these features could be combined into one tool with a modifier key. This can be VERY frustrating for someone coming from Illustrator. The whole animation process could be speed up by a factor of five if this were addressed.

• While the BONES are amazing, I do not like the warping. In most cases I would prefer to just draw the next frame vs. the rubber look which stands out like a soar thumb to me. And I dont see an easy way to do this.

Now, I know I bought AS and not Illustrator, so dont get me wrong. I was hoping for Illustrator with a timeline, but alas... Enough of my bitching, just wanted to make those comments should anyone be looking for the same thing I was.

Now, all that being said, I am forging ahead and plan on becoming an expert in this application. I have grandiose plans. I have searched the Forum a bit but I'm having troubles with a few areas...

Things I am looking for and or interested in: Please point me in the right direction if possible.

• Best method of having a multi-angle group for characters (say, 8 positions for a head turning N,S,E,W and 1 in-between for each) along with eye, nose and mouth layers. Is it possible to have something that complex?

• Ignoring crazy filters and effects, does a basic Illustrator file (saved to Version 8, found that much) import well? or does it get warped?

• Any thoughts on a clean walk cycle NOT using bones? good vs bad?

• Where are some of the best sample of AS at work.

I plan on generating something along the animation quality of sponge bob / fairly odd parents and the like. It appears, that with some hard work, you can achieve this with this program.

Anyway here is this first lip sync test using the Bush comments. I used the basic lip sync method which I modified a bit afterwards. Background color change was an accident. Stuff like that happens A LOT, but i'm sure with time that will decrease.

Also, if you link to all my videos from this one, you can see some simple animations I did with PENCIL and nice free app for the MAC. And you'll see some stop motion I did. Fun stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skjBFl-ngyU

Sorry about the long rant, look forward to becoming a part of this forum.

Thanks, Erik

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:18 pm

I will not go into any discussion about drawing tools, we had that quite often enough. They're different, period. Illustrator was a pain in the ass when I had to leave FreeHand.

multi-angle group for characters: You're on the right track, although the setup will differ. I used front, 3/4 side, side, 3/4 back, and back - you get different sides easily via flipping. My rig: 5 views, yours: 8. Somewhere in the forum I have described that in more detail. You'll find an example of that at the end of my showreel (http://www.enigmation.de/showreel2009.html), but beware: 90 MB Quicktime.

basic Illustrator file: Possible, albeit allow for some time spent with corrections, some edge points will become curve points. The biggest problem I had was the conversion of Illustrator lines into AS shapes - it is very hard to keep those aligned in animation. Since that I prefer to create everything right away in AS: it's faster and better suited for animation.

walk cycle NOT using bones: Don't, unless you're animating amoebas. "Digital puppetry" like AS works best with bones. If you try the same with just point animation, you spend much too much time and would be faster drawing each frame by hand in another program.

best sample of AS: Mikdog's stuff. Mine. Selgin is amazing. Vern does amazing rigs. But the really best would be Erik van Schaaik's The Phantom of the Cinema (http://www.phantomofthecinema.com/en/).

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:57 pm

The EXCESSIVE tool switching should be fixed

Agree on that.
-G

Gametrog · Post by **Gametrog** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:39 am

Appreciate the links, good stuff. I think I'll work on a walk/run action tonight. I'll post the results.

Heres a few other samples using iStopMotion and Pencil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CIguGy9VV0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWvXdg0gIxQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC6vSHIiSBA

Gametrog · Post by **Gametrog** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:03 am

Moved new movies and info over to Show Your Work thread. Check out the Reagan movie. After doing that one. Im already feeling much more comfortable with the tools.

Brentford · Post by **Brentford** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:06 am

Hey Gametrog. I'm new too and as a graphic artist I will agree that the tools are limited to Illustrator. But the price difference should give you that hint. Though I think with your drive you will get the hang of things. It's like learning quark after using Indesign. I HATE QUARK!

Jean_R · Post by **Jean_R** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:32 pm

• The EXCESSIVE tool switching should be fixed.

Totally agree with this point, I tried to replace default tools by modified from this forum on v5.6 but I fear too much errors during important projects in doing same replacements with v6. Assuming this decision produces a regression.

Gametrog · Post by **Gametrog** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:59 am

Brentford wrote:Hey Gametrog. I'm new too and as a graphic artist I will agree that the tools are limited to Illustrator. But the price difference should give you that hint. Though I think with your drive you will get the hang of things. It's like learning quark after using Indesign. I HATE QUARK!

I grew up on quark... hate Indesign/pagemaker! : )

I just think (thought) that handle bars would be nice, but as I use it I am seeing the the number of points can be crucial, where a good Illustrator in (illustrator...) would use as few points as possible.

Still would be nice to draw with handle bars and then add points. But I will survive

Gametrog · Post by **Gametrog** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:03 am

Jean_R wrote:
• The EXCESSIVE tool switching should be fixed.
Totally agree with this point, I tried to replace default tools by modified from this forum on v5.6 but I fear too much errors during important projects in doing same replacements with v6. Assuming this decision produces a regression.

[/quote]

I keep trying to figure out if it is NEEDED. Like... would I keep selecting and or filling things without wanting too, but for the life of me I cant seem to find a situation where flopping all over the tool bar is saving me from some invisible headache.

Honestly I'm just going to make suggestions to the developer. They clearly have a nice product and a few tweeks can make it better. Until then I move on, one tool and action at a time.

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Gametrog, I don't know if you know, but any tool can be modified and replaced. There are even lot of new tools for specific tasks on scripting section.

Fazek, an old member, remade all the basic tools and let them much more intuitive, avoiding a lot of clicks. Take a look on scripting section and try to replace your tools for Fazek's. Just be careful and backup your scripts before doing anything.

On animatorsforums.com (another forum created by two great animators/scripters) you will find the Fazek's tools working for AS 6.
http://www.kelleytown.com/forum/animato ... OPIC_ID=37

slice11217 · Post by **slice11217** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:27 pm

Slowtiger, I like your reel! The only thing I'd say is to remove the "shopping" segment since it doesn't seem to fit the rest of the reel. Overall though, I'd say that's one fun, and professional reel! I like the gag with the rain and the umbrella. It's one of those "wish I'd thought of it" moments.

Good work,

S

Jean_R · Post by **Jean_R** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:18 pm

Thx so much Selgin !