UrumaDelvi Paint Beta is available, but you have to pay to be a member of the fan club, then to download the software.
Has anyone tried?
http://urumadelvi.com/udpaint/download.html
UrumaDelvi Paint
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
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Víctor Paredes
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Looks interesting, but their business plan seems to be to blackmail casual visitors into becoming a member of their club! That is poor psychology when you are trying to build up a user base...you don't want to pay to try something out, you want to try something out before you pay.
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
Yes, they want and need your money, but only 315 yen per month. That's a little over $3 per month. They've been trying to raise some investment capital for years, now, and have been unable to do so.
Just look at your contribution as a donation to keep development going.
I like these guys and the software is completely revolutionary. I'm trying it as we speak.
They could also use some tutorials written, or spoken in English. The deep features are not documented yet.
I think it's worth the $3 just to try it and give them a boost.
Greg Smith
Just look at your contribution as a donation to keep development going.
I like these guys and the software is completely revolutionary. I'm trying it as we speak.
They could also use some tutorials written, or spoken in English. The deep features are not documented yet.
I think it's worth the $3 just to try it and give them a boost.
Greg Smith
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neeters_guy
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I took the plunge. It's about $3.73 at today's exchange rate. The billing is a recurring monthly charge, but you can withdraw membership on the website at any time. The download is a time trial so the current beta release will expire on December 31st, 2009. The installer will install the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) if it isn't already installed.
I just started playing with it. There is drawing tool that's kind of neat. It's called the "good boy" tool, but more appropriately it is a smoothing tool. You stroke or "pet" a jittery line, and it smooths it out.
I'll post more feedback as time allows.
I just started playing with it. There is drawing tool that's kind of neat. It's called the "good boy" tool, but more appropriately it is a smoothing tool. You stroke or "pet" a jittery line, and it smooths it out.
I'll post more feedback as time allows.
I'd be interested to hear your feedback. I watched the video demo on their website. Seems like quite a cool piece of software. Looks like it treats raster/vector images like bones in AS, but with more of an understanding not to move eg. the body when you move the arm (looks like you use pins to pin various parts of the drawing).
Got wind of this software. probably via a link from this forum, a wile ago. Looks like its developed a bit since then.
Got wind of this software. probably via a link from this forum, a wile ago. Looks like its developed a bit since then.
Every shape that you draw is encapsulated in a triangular, underlying mesh, (a deformation mesh). You can make this visible to see what the resolution is.
I've found that if you draw your shape very large, initially, you get a deformation mesh that is much denser, higher resolution. Things like bending arms and legs work better, the higher their resolution.
Just draw it with a thick enough line weight and scale it down to the desired size, (at this point, the line thickness scales proportional to the shape).
I think the dot controlled deformation mesh, coupled with the "real time" recording of layered movement is what makes this program so special - that, and the simplicity and unobtrusiveness of the interface.
At this time, some of the most important timeline features are not fully developed, but you can see that the designers intend them to be by release date.
It's an entirely different way of working with animation, but it is really starting to grow on me. The lack of clutter is inspirational, all by itself.
Greg Smith
I've found that if you draw your shape very large, initially, you get a deformation mesh that is much denser, higher resolution. Things like bending arms and legs work better, the higher their resolution.
Just draw it with a thick enough line weight and scale it down to the desired size, (at this point, the line thickness scales proportional to the shape).
I think the dot controlled deformation mesh, coupled with the "real time" recording of layered movement is what makes this program so special - that, and the simplicity and unobtrusiveness of the interface.
At this time, some of the most important timeline features are not fully developed, but you can see that the designers intend them to be by release date.
It's an entirely different way of working with animation, but it is really starting to grow on me. The lack of clutter is inspirational, all by itself.
Greg Smith
I've been communicating with the developers of UrumaDelviPaint, and they informed me that they will be releasing the Japanese version, (with professional timeline animation features), on the 8th of December.
The new version will be called PICMO, and, if they stick to their original release schedule, will be available for English speaking users in early 2010.
The good news is that the Japanese version of the software available on the 8th, will have the option for an English GUI. The only thing still missing from the product, as of this date, is the English user's manual. Members will also get a discount.
I'm confident that this new version will be just as easy to "experiment your way through" as the first version has been.
I'm pretty sure that everyone will be able to purchase the software on the 8th, (if they don't mind using the Japanese online order form and can do without an English language manual). I don't know what price they intend to set for the software.
Greg Smith
The new version will be called PICMO, and, if they stick to their original release schedule, will be available for English speaking users in early 2010.
The good news is that the Japanese version of the software available on the 8th, will have the option for an English GUI. The only thing still missing from the product, as of this date, is the English user's manual. Members will also get a discount.
I'm confident that this new version will be just as easy to "experiment your way through" as the first version has been.
I'm pretty sure that everyone will be able to purchase the software on the 8th, (if they don't mind using the Japanese online order form and can do without an English language manual). I don't know what price they intend to set for the software.
Greg Smith
PICMO, the newest incarnation of UrumaDelviPaint, has been released for sale, (although the "store" is entirely written in Japanese).
You can also download a 7 day, (saveless), demo of the new software via http://www.picmo.com
Now, there are 2 types, or really 4 methods for creating animation. The most impressive and fun method is "Baton". This allows you to set "pose dots", (like in DAZ Studio), which act as "performance keyframes". I say "performance" because you manipulate and record the time between poses in real time.
With a little practice, very sophisticated, natural looking 2D animation can be produced with the combination of all the new tools. One could even produce complete head and full body turns, given a little experience with the software.
As we speak, I'm trying to figure out how to order this through their Japanese website. The GUI is totally in English, so the software is perfectly usable - it's purchasing it that has me stumped. Members of the "DELUXE" membership also receive a discount.
Greg Smith
You can also download a 7 day, (saveless), demo of the new software via http://www.picmo.com
Now, there are 2 types, or really 4 methods for creating animation. The most impressive and fun method is "Baton". This allows you to set "pose dots", (like in DAZ Studio), which act as "performance keyframes". I say "performance" because you manipulate and record the time between poses in real time.
With a little practice, very sophisticated, natural looking 2D animation can be produced with the combination of all the new tools. One could even produce complete head and full body turns, given a little experience with the software.
As we speak, I'm trying to figure out how to order this through their Japanese website. The GUI is totally in English, so the software is perfectly usable - it's purchasing it that has me stumped. Members of the "DELUXE" membership also receive a discount.
Greg Smith
Well I have just downloaded it and it seems it doesn't run on my computer... I have Windows XP Pro and I have uninstall and re-install (just in case) the "Java Runtime Environment" with no luck, I have Googled about *.jar run problems in Windows with same results and, finally, I have re-installed too the PICMO application, but all it's the same...
The issue is that nothing happens when I double click my desktop PICMO shortcut and nothing happens when I doble clicking any sample files too, so... it seems I won't be able to try it, and I suppose that the 7 days limit still will be running...
ANYWAY! After have been playing with the After Effects's puppet tool for a time, I must admit that I'm not so much excited yet with this software as I was in the past... ALTHOUGH! I still wanted to test this one "version" to can say my last word... SO! If someone have had this problem and knows a solution to make it run... I'll be grateful
The issue is that nothing happens when I double click my desktop PICMO shortcut and nothing happens when I doble clicking any sample files too, so... it seems I won't be able to try it, and I suppose that the 7 days limit still will be running...
ANYWAY! After have been playing with the After Effects's puppet tool for a time, I must admit that I'm not so much excited yet with this software as I was in the past... ALTHOUGH! I still wanted to test this one "version" to can say my last word... SO! If someone have had this problem and knows a solution to make it run... I'll be grateful
...
Ramon:
I'm sorry you are having difficulties. Make sure you are NOT running Java version 10.0. I think there are known issues with that virtual machine. Try version 9, instead.
If that is not the problem, I've found that sending a message to the developers usually elicits a response. It could be XP incompatible.
I actually managed to purchase the software by using Google "Translate", line by line, page by page, to go all the way through the form. I even managed to enter the coupon code and get a $10 discount.
Judging by the form, I'd say the Japanese are suspicious about buying things online, (they gave plenty of opportunities to cancel and keep reassuring the purchasers that everything is safe and all is well).
For sure, the most exciting thing about this new release are the functions contained in "Baton", the real time pose/performance interface. Unbelievable how quickly you can put things together and how fluid and natural you can make your animations appear.
For me, the biggest boost and relief is the extremely simple interface that houses a powerful and intuitive set of tools. When you are animating all day long, eyes get mighty tired and fatigue is all too easy to acquire. "I get see sick from seeing too much!" Tigger.
The other things worth noting are the line smoothing and shape "stretching" and altering function obtained through the "Good Boy!" tool. You can start with a few circles and stretch them into a great many, more complicated shapes with great control.
Like Anime Studio, some of the convenience lies in being able to "model" your 2D characters and tween the variations you make to each shape. But, drawing frame by frame is also very smooth and uncomplicated and the "pen" tool is quite responsive - I use a Wacom Cintiq 12x, (early big Christmas present).
This one app holds the potential to really streamline very complex 2D animations, removing much of the pain associated with producing them.
Greg Smith
I'm sorry you are having difficulties. Make sure you are NOT running Java version 10.0. I think there are known issues with that virtual machine. Try version 9, instead.
If that is not the problem, I've found that sending a message to the developers usually elicits a response. It could be XP incompatible.
I actually managed to purchase the software by using Google "Translate", line by line, page by page, to go all the way through the form. I even managed to enter the coupon code and get a $10 discount.
Judging by the form, I'd say the Japanese are suspicious about buying things online, (they gave plenty of opportunities to cancel and keep reassuring the purchasers that everything is safe and all is well).
For sure, the most exciting thing about this new release are the functions contained in "Baton", the real time pose/performance interface. Unbelievable how quickly you can put things together and how fluid and natural you can make your animations appear.
For me, the biggest boost and relief is the extremely simple interface that houses a powerful and intuitive set of tools. When you are animating all day long, eyes get mighty tired and fatigue is all too easy to acquire. "I get see sick from seeing too much!" Tigger.
The other things worth noting are the line smoothing and shape "stretching" and altering function obtained through the "Good Boy!" tool. You can start with a few circles and stretch them into a great many, more complicated shapes with great control.
Like Anime Studio, some of the convenience lies in being able to "model" your 2D characters and tween the variations you make to each shape. But, drawing frame by frame is also very smooth and uncomplicated and the "pen" tool is quite responsive - I use a Wacom Cintiq 12x, (early big Christmas present).
This one app holds the potential to really streamline very complex 2D animations, removing much of the pain associated with producing them.
Greg Smith
Hi, GregSmith! You are very fortunate to can run it, but (of course) overall... to be the owner of that Cintiq 12WX! Jeje, what an envyyy 
Hmmm... Java 10.0? I think I have the Java "Version 6 Update 17" that I downloaded yesterday from the Java site, is this "Version 6 Update 17" the equivalent to the 10 version that you said? If sooo... should I search for something like "Java 5 Update XX" or something so? Maybe I be misunderstanding something here...
About the software... Well, one problem which I rapidly clash, was that you had no control about the number of PINS you use in your character or how they affects the mesh, I mean, of course this technology works better "as less pins as possible" you use, but as soon as you need more control or precise movements here and there, you need to add more points here and there... and so on... and cause you didn't be able to delete or make'em "inactive" or reduce his influence after they become useless (or you didn't need 'em any more), soon you find that your character was filled of this pins that killed all that funtastic squishy movements as well as fill it with that triangled artifacts... I don't know if you'll have get it cause I feel like if I have not explained it very well
Besides that, although it could well be connected, the biggest problem I had when tried to take advantage of this technology into After Effects, was that there was NO way of mix several poses or blend between several meshes to make it "flexible" (or some flexible at least), so immediately all that became in a simple toy to me... So, although I can understand from your words "One could even produce complete head and full body turns" that this lack could have been resolved, can you assure that you can make a draw, put your "pins" animate until you need another "totally" different draw, apply other pins over that new draw and get a continuous animation from the first draw to the last one in PICMO? Cause, definitely, if you have the ability of merge several meshes to go from one draw to another maintaining that super squishy movement in this way, finally we could be talking about very (VERY) different applications!
And it could call all my attention again...
Well, I'd like to be able to test it for myself but cause this is not possible yet (and I really don't know if it will be
), thank you for any info you can share and sorry for the riot act...
Hmmm... Java 10.0? I think I have the Java "Version 6 Update 17" that I downloaded yesterday from the Java site, is this "Version 6 Update 17" the equivalent to the 10 version that you said? If sooo... should I search for something like "Java 5 Update XX" or something so? Maybe I be misunderstanding something here...
About the software... Well, one problem which I rapidly clash, was that you had no control about the number of PINS you use in your character or how they affects the mesh, I mean, of course this technology works better "as less pins as possible" you use, but as soon as you need more control or precise movements here and there, you need to add more points here and there... and so on... and cause you didn't be able to delete or make'em "inactive" or reduce his influence after they become useless (or you didn't need 'em any more), soon you find that your character was filled of this pins that killed all that funtastic squishy movements as well as fill it with that triangled artifacts... I don't know if you'll have get it cause I feel like if I have not explained it very well
Besides that, although it could well be connected, the biggest problem I had when tried to take advantage of this technology into After Effects, was that there was NO way of mix several poses or blend between several meshes to make it "flexible" (or some flexible at least), so immediately all that became in a simple toy to me... So, although I can understand from your words "One could even produce complete head and full body turns" that this lack could have been resolved, can you assure that you can make a draw, put your "pins" animate until you need another "totally" different draw, apply other pins over that new draw and get a continuous animation from the first draw to the last one in PICMO? Cause, definitely, if you have the ability of merge several meshes to go from one draw to another maintaining that super squishy movement in this way, finally we could be talking about very (VERY) different applications!
And it could call all my attention again...Well, I'd like to be able to test it for myself but cause this is not possible yet (and I really don't know if it will be
), thank you for any info you can share and sorry for the riot act......
Ramon:
Maybe I got the Java versions mixed up. Anyway, the latest one is the one you DON'T want. You should install the previous version of Java.
Regarding pins: Just like in After Effects, the fewer pins you can get away with the better. But, you can get much finer control by starting with a very large underlying triangular distortion mesh. The way you do this is by setting up your initial "canvas" to be at least 1024 x 768. Draw your shapes as large as you can, because the larger you draw them, the more triangles there are.
Then, you define whatever pieces of the drawing that you want to combine together in a single "AnimClip". The AnimClip lets you also arrange each part of your character or scene in depth. Layers do this too, but using the AnimClip works on a single layer regarding depth sorting.
Once an AnimClip is defined, you can shrink it way down and the triangle count remains the same, (they shrink in size with the AnimClip, itself). Having a large triangle count assures that there are very few triangular artifacts. This is a key concept.
Once you have defined all of the discreet parts of your character into separate AnimClips, you can sort all of their "depths". Using the new "Baton" functions, every "pose" you make can be represented as an "X" in a visual graph, (an octagon), each "X" can be placed in any order you want.
By pressing "Record" you can drag the cursor through the array of "X's", producing automatically tweened, "performance" animations, in real time. You can keep making new passes, until you get it right. By advancing the time slider in the timeline, you can keep adding new "clips", building your entire animation a little at a time.
Baton "pin movement" is for specific motion like arms, legs, fingers and facial feature movement, (eyes, mouth, nose) - allowing you to move them even into "3D" positions - this, coupled with the "Translate" functions, (move, scale, skew and rotate), combines to make the entire character movement - thus producing all of the head and body "turns".
PICMO uses an entirely new paradigm for production, and it does take some getting used to - but I find it very pleasing to use and somewhat addictive. The animated performances that you are able to create are much more "living" and much less mechanical looking.
You just gotta love that interface - so Spartan, but powerful. Simple is definitely better than complex.
Greg Smith
Maybe I got the Java versions mixed up. Anyway, the latest one is the one you DON'T want. You should install the previous version of Java.
Regarding pins: Just like in After Effects, the fewer pins you can get away with the better. But, you can get much finer control by starting with a very large underlying triangular distortion mesh. The way you do this is by setting up your initial "canvas" to be at least 1024 x 768. Draw your shapes as large as you can, because the larger you draw them, the more triangles there are.
Then, you define whatever pieces of the drawing that you want to combine together in a single "AnimClip". The AnimClip lets you also arrange each part of your character or scene in depth. Layers do this too, but using the AnimClip works on a single layer regarding depth sorting.
Once an AnimClip is defined, you can shrink it way down and the triangle count remains the same, (they shrink in size with the AnimClip, itself). Having a large triangle count assures that there are very few triangular artifacts. This is a key concept.
Once you have defined all of the discreet parts of your character into separate AnimClips, you can sort all of their "depths". Using the new "Baton" functions, every "pose" you make can be represented as an "X" in a visual graph, (an octagon), each "X" can be placed in any order you want.
By pressing "Record" you can drag the cursor through the array of "X's", producing automatically tweened, "performance" animations, in real time. You can keep making new passes, until you get it right. By advancing the time slider in the timeline, you can keep adding new "clips", building your entire animation a little at a time.
Baton "pin movement" is for specific motion like arms, legs, fingers and facial feature movement, (eyes, mouth, nose) - allowing you to move them even into "3D" positions - this, coupled with the "Translate" functions, (move, scale, skew and rotate), combines to make the entire character movement - thus producing all of the head and body "turns".
PICMO uses an entirely new paradigm for production, and it does take some getting used to - but I find it very pleasing to use and somewhat addictive. The animated performances that you are able to create are much more "living" and much less mechanical looking.
You just gotta love that interface - so Spartan, but powerful. Simple is definitely better than complex.
Greg Smith
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neeters_guy
- Posts: 1619
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:33 pm
- Contact:
Greg Smith,
Thanks for your explanations and workflow suggestions. They really help me understand the paradigm behind this program. I'm still trying to get the hang of the drawing tools. As a reference, here are the keyboard shortcuts for the toolbox.
**************************
Select Flyout: Select Pointer (A), Select Lasso (L)
(Press and hold ctrl to activate when using other tools)
Good Boy! Pen (S)
(left click -- smooth line, right click -- manipulate line)
Draw (D)
Eraser (E)
Shape Flyout: Line (V), Rectangle (R), Filled Rectangle (shift+R), Circle (C), Filled Circle (shift+C)
Fill Flyout: Fill (F), Gradient (G)
Eyedropper (I)
Text (T)
Undo (ctrl+Z)
Zoom: zoom in(Z), zoom out (X)
or
left click -- zoom in, ctrl+left click -- zoom out
or
right click -- zoom out
left click drag -- pan
(Press and hold space bar to activate from any other tool)
Delete (Delete)
**************************
Thanks for your explanations and workflow suggestions. They really help me understand the paradigm behind this program. I'm still trying to get the hang of the drawing tools. As a reference, here are the keyboard shortcuts for the toolbox.
**************************
Select Flyout: Select Pointer (A), Select Lasso (L)
(Press and hold ctrl to activate when using other tools)
Good Boy! Pen (S)
(left click -- smooth line, right click -- manipulate line)
Draw (D)
Eraser (E)
Shape Flyout: Line (V), Rectangle (R), Filled Rectangle (shift+R), Circle (C), Filled Circle (shift+C)
Fill Flyout: Fill (F), Gradient (G)
Eyedropper (I)
Text (T)
Undo (ctrl+Z)
Zoom: zoom in(Z), zoom out (X)
or
left click -- zoom in, ctrl+left click -- zoom out
or
right click -- zoom out
left click drag -- pan
(Press and hold space bar to activate from any other tool)
Delete (Delete)
**************************
Yeah, thank you very much too! Although... that would make me really happy is to can try it be myseeelf! 
And the worst thing is I think I've tried all that have pass through my mind, with no (any!) results... I've found some scarce threads over the world from people with similar problem in Windows XP but any solution for it, finally, I can't remember how, I have been able to capture this series of console errors that I put here just in case someone be familiarized with this kind of Java stuff and be able to find some clue:
I don't know if the issue could be related with the OS language or something... I have wrote to the PICMO support explaining my problem too BTW, although t I'm still waiting for a response, so we'll see...
Well, the case is that as more as you talk about it, more I'm looking forward to try it! So please, stop posting unlesss... unless you have a possible solution for me, of course
And the worst thing is I think I've tried all that have pass through my mind, with no (any!) results... I've found some scarce threads over the world from people with similar problem in Windows XP but any solution for it, finally, I can't remember how, I have been able to capture this series of console errors that I put here just in case someone be familiarized with this kind of Java stuff and be able to find some clue:I don't know if the issue could be related with the OS language or something... I have wrote to the PICMO support explaining my problem too BTW, although t I'm still waiting for a response, so we'll see...
Well, the case is that as more as you talk about it, more I'm looking forward to try it! So please, stop posting unlesss... unless you have a possible solution for me, of course
...