How do I cycle a complex. multi-layer animation?

Barry Baker · Post by **Barry Baker** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:28 pm

I have animated a character on many levels, with bones and sub-layers of bones, and switch layers, and sub-switch layers etc etc... very complex. Now I'd like to repeat the action. But if I cycle the top level group layer that contains the character, none of the sub-layers actually repeat their actions. The cycling only affects the immediate layer, and the channels within that layer.

So what I want to know is, is there an easier way of repeating the whole action than going down through each layer and remembering where I had animated something, and finding the right channels and turning cycling on for each one?

This is one symptom of an area of Moho where it's all too easy to get lost. I just love building up animation in layers, each one adding to the final result, but it can be hell to afterwards go in and change anything, because it's then hard to work out what other actions have been affected by the changes.

Post by **Lost Marble** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:50 pm

There's no easy way to do what you're asking. As you've described it, it's a very complex setup. One solution would be to write a script (if you have the programming skills) that would go in and cycle every channel of every sub-layer in your extended groups with the cycling settings you choose.

7feet · Post by **7feet** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:36 pm

Well, you already used the word, but I'll capatalize it. The answer is Actions. For a good quick overview, check out tutorial 5.6. Actions are a really handy thing if you want to do complex repeated movements. They are basically separate timelines you can "insert" into the main timeline at will. You can also overlap them. So you could, say, set up separate action cycles for different body parts. Seperate the movements for legs, arms, head, so you can mix and match at will. Use them to set up a library of facial expressions. Neat stuff. Unfortunately, if you've already done a lot of animating, you can't (at the moment) copy animation from the main timeline into actions, only the other way around, so to use them you would have to redo the animations, but in the end I think you would find the flexibility worth it.

--Brian

Post by **Lost Marble** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:43 pm

7feet wrote:Unfortunately, if you've already done a lot of animating, you can't (at the moment) copy animation from the main timeline into actions, only the other way around

Actually, you can copy keyframes from the main timeline into an action. Make sure you've got the latest Moho update (5.0.2), and you can do this. You can't insert the mainline into an action by reference, but you can insert it by copy (using the Actions window).

Barry Baker · Post by **Barry Baker** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:05 pm

Actually, Brian, I started out by using Actions, but they, too, are very specific to the layer you're working with. This makes them very flexible, as they can be mixed with other movements, but they still don't work with the sub-layers beneath. I suppose what I'm after is a way of wrapping up a whole section of multi-layer, multi-channel animation in a Group Action (like a Group Layer wraps up many other layers) so that the whole thing can be easily transported around the Timeline.

For example, I can create an action with the main skeleton that gives me a walk cycle, but if I have got my swinging arms on a separate skeleton, and the head turns from side to side, then I already have to think about repeating 3 different Actions for every step. In fact, the animation I have been working on has many more levels than this, and because the character is interacting with props and 3d models, it became a logistical nightmare where every action depended on all the others to achieve the illusion that she was really holding the paper, writing on it, stamping it and tossing it away while reaching for the next one.

I wish I could show you all what it looks like, but as it is an ongoing commercial project, I think I shall have to wait until after it has been delivered to my clients. It's unfortunate, but I don't want to get into trouble with them for releasing clips on the web.

Barry Baker · Post by **Barry Baker** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:10 pm

Lost Marble wrote: Actually, you can copy keyframes from the main timeline into an action. Make sure you've got the latest Moho update (5.0.2), and you can do this. You can't insert the mainline into an action by reference, but you can insert it by copy (using the Actions window).

Hey! that reply sneaked in while I was typing out mine. I didn't know you could do that! That could be very useful indeed.

Post by **Lost Marble** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:45 pm

Barry Baker wrote:Actually, Brian, I started out by using Actions, but they, too, are very specific to the layer you're working with. This makes them very flexible, as they can be mixed with other movements, but they still don't work with the sub-layers beneath.

They may not work with your specific setup, I'm not sure, but when you create an action for a group layer, that action also applies to the children of that group. For example, you might create a "walk" action for a bone layer. If you examine the vector layers inside the bone layer, they will also have a walk action, and you can go in and add a little point motion in that action to go along with the bone movement in the parent layer.

Barry Baker · Post by **Barry Baker** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:21 pm

Eureka! That's the answer. Thanks both of you, now I'm on the right track. I had no idea that actions comprised all the child levels as well - that's exactly what I was looking for, especially now I know how to copy the mainline keyframes into an action. It means I can start working in the mainline, then transfer everything into an action - brilliant!

I am constantly amazed by the amount of thought that has gone into this program - it just feels like anything is possible in Moho!

Oldphart · Post by **Oldphart** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:20 pm

Lost Marble wrote: Actually, you can copy keyframes from the main timeline into an action. Make sure you've got the latest Moho update (5.0.2), and you can do this. You can't insert the mainline into an action by reference, but you can insert it by copy (using the Actions window).

Ummm.... guess I'm short some gray matter. Cant get this to work. i.e. copy key frames from mainline into an action. Would some kind soul spell this out in grim step by step detail. (am running 5.1)

thanks

Oldphart · Post by **Oldphart** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:29 pm

Well I got it to work but only by inserting a initial keyframe into the action first so I still feel a bit confused, eh?

Post by **Lost Marble** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:08 pm

Maybe the problem you had was that you can't insert an action at frame 0. You have to be at frame 1 or later to insert any action (including copying the mainline into another action).

So, it's not that you had to insert an initial keyframe first, but that you had to be at a frame other than zero.

Oldphart · Post by **Oldphart** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:57 pm

Lost Marble wrote:Maybe the problem you had was that you can't insert an action at frame 0. You have to be at frame 1 or later to insert any action (including copying the mainline into another action).

So, it's not that you had to insert an initial keyframe first, but that you had to be at a frame other than zero.

Ah! Indeed so. Thank you.

monkeywisdom · Post by **monkeywisdom** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:45 am

It's an old thread, but I have to ask: I tried copying keyframes into an action and it didn't work. I'm trying to cycle an animation, the layers of which are all in one bone layer, but it involves much more than bone manipulation. It's very complex. Cycling while selecting the bone layer didn't work, so I created a new action. With the bone layer selected, I hit "animation" --->"copy current frame" hoping I could copy each frame one by one and it wouldn't paste into the action. I also tried mass selecting keyframes and pasting it that way. Still didn't work. Is there a trick? It's a very subtle program.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:02 am

If I need to cycle something very complex with, say, more than 5 channels, I wouldn't bother with actions or anything. Instead I'd render that loop to a quicktime video file and re-import this, switching visibility where I need the cycle to stop.

Barry Baker · Post by **Barry Baker** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:15 am

The copying must be done through the Actions panel, not through the menu.

Make sure you are not on frame 0.
Make sure you are in the parent layer (Bone, group etc.) of all the layers you want to copy into the action.
Open the Actions panel, and make the action active, where you want to copy the mainline. (eg. by double-clicking on its name).
Click once on "Mainline", then on the "Insert Copy" gadget.

That's it! Mainline copied into action.