Hatake kakashi (AS & Mirage)

[LittleFenris]

You know the funny thing about discussions like this is not one person in here will change their view on the subject and it will be a never-ending back and forth debate.

Bottom line, tracing is fine if you give credit where credit is due and aren't making a profit of any kind off of the animation or image unless permission has been granted by the artist or owner of the rights to the art.

[Touched]

I'll address the last couple of questions and statements combined here briefly, but I'd rather give it all a rest, since I hate to stir the hornet's nest, and the topic could keep going on. And since, as Clay mentioned, I seem to be the only one here who feels strongly about this issue, and I'm certainly not going to recruit other artists from the other groups to come here and add their voices.

Nobody said that everybody was copying

Well, what set me off was your comment that "all the great names used photographs as reference," referring to 19th century painters, and what immediately came to mind was Bouguereau, a painter I know to have not used photographs, even as reference. The "painting from traced projections" issue was what I was primarily protesting, and I realise you weren't talking about that, but Norman Rockwell was mentioned earlier, and it was never cleared up in this thread whether that was what was meant about him. Tracing projections, or reference?

After all, what does copying mean? Some examples:

What I mean, and the only thing I take issue with, is this:
Tracing another artist's drawing without permission or at least attribution of credit for the original work.

That's all. I don't have any issue at all with drawing from life (a respectable and necessary technique), nor copying concepts, ideas, poses, colour themes, photographic references, etc. I'm not even going to take issue with tracing photos, painting from traced projection, unless it's stated or implied that all the greats did it. That's a side issue which doesn't really apply here, and I didn't have anything further to say about it.

And I'm not even saying that Clay is guilty of failing to attribute, though as Vern mentioned, it was not done adequately enough to inform all of the viewers here, and he did not correct anyone's impressions until I came in here.

I'm highly suspicious when I hear claims like "A TWUE ARTIST only creates from his own imagination"

I don't see anyone in this thread that said that or anything like it...certainly not me.

I hope I've cleared up my position on the key issue. I will no longer continue to defend it actively here. Though of course if someone asks me a question directly or something, I'll answer. What I don't want is to keep coming across as a hardass.

EDIT: Despite how it might seem here, I'm not merely copying LittleFenris' sentiment above my post here, as I was working on my long response when he posted his. But I'm happy enough to be in accord with it.

[slowtiger]

What I mean, and the only thing I take issue with, is this:
Tracing another artist's drawing without permission or at least attribution of credit for the original work.

Well ... I think the problem boils down to this:
"Copy somebody else's work and pretend it is your own."

(and while we're deep into it, how about artists like Kiki Picasso or Glen Baxter or Heinz Emigholz whose drawings constist entirely of tracings of other artwork?)

[larspanky]

Ill admit I am a tad annoyed at all of this, please discuss what you wish but keep it in context, start a new thread etc... It took me 10 min of reading to sort out that nobody has asked the flowing question.

Is that character completely vector, or are you using any bitmap elements? Tracing, ripoff or what have you, technically the technique looks solid. Frankly I am interested in duplicating it and documenting it.

Thanks.

[Mendi]

Well, I didn't read the whole thread but I'm not quite sure about the purpose of this post. I think it is a great drawing/rotoscope/whatever with very little animation on it. It's almost like showing a static drawing.
About the mirage effects, I reckon there's no need to use a different program to achieve that effect... What I would really like is to see that picture actually moving!!!