The following is a Krita issue but there is one BIG thing I dislike about that program's FBF workflow, and it's that Krita cannot display an audio waveform in its timeline. It's been a while since I last checked but I don't think the developers have addressed this yet. It's on their to-do list but it's been several years since users made the request so I'm not holding my breath for it.
You can try to sync audio by listening to the track as you animate but the last time I tried that, I found this workflow wasn't frame accurate. That said, it's possible I was using compressed audio for that test. When using uncompressed audio, it really should be frame accurate.
I think Krita is a fantastic painting and drawing program but the above is the reason I don't like using it for FBF animation.
Moho can display an audio waveform of course, and its audio sync is always very accurate for me (using uncompressed .aif or .wav.) I just want to be able to draw FBF with the Freehand tool in Moho without pulling out my hair.
hayasidist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:39 am
Yes to both Sam and Chucky -- there are deep issues that need to be considered...
so let's take a look at this from a slightly different direction.
what does bitmap give that vector doesn't?
conversely why has Krita embraced SVG (and so offers vector graphics)?
what about .EPS / .AI vector formats?
why do I use bitmap instead of vector?
for me it's the ease of making fills that aren't just a block of solid colour; it's a more "paintbrush in hand" feeling than the click-drag-click of defining a path and then struggling to get a "textured" fill...
and now Moho has blob brush and freehand... but they're (dare I say this??) no substitute AS YET for the brush-in-hand feeling... but if I had brushes for FILL in moho that would help... if I had blend modes at shape level... if ... if ...
so maybe we stop worrying about bitmap in Moho and start thinking about making it much easier to create vector shapes that look as though they've been "painted" rather than being (neatly trimmed, carefully placed, cleverly animated) cut out shapes of coloured paper.
IOW improve blob brush and freehand to the point that bitmap becomes yesterday's technology??
Honestly I've talked and mentioned this a lot but LostMarble should take a look at CACANi for a additional way to inbetween and color. CACANi has probably the most natural inbetween for fbf animators. Draw strokes, match stroke order (This does not mean have equal amount of vector points it literally only matters on the direction and order the stroke is drawn which is great) (Also if you mess up you can bind a stroke to the appropriate stroke that is a feature of CACANi), the coloring in CACANi isn't perfect but it works a lot like traditional animation where you don't need to worry about creating a shape just make sure there is no gaps and you're good to paint it has invisible and hidden line options to help with stylized gaps. Also there is a auto color feature that just creates shapes based on stroke borders. Again this is important because in Moho you NEED to create a full shape and color and you're pretty much stuck with that shape unless you switch it out with a switch layer where CACANi allows you to focus on the drawings and you could just let the software do its magic. Also I wish Moho had a better way of controlling interpolation of keyframes in CACANi you can apply your own timing with something that is like a timing chart so its really easy to do your own timing compared to Moho.
hayasidist wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:39 am
Yes to both Sam and Chucky -- there are deep issues that need to be considered...
so let's take a look at this from a slightly different direction.
what does bitmap give that vector doesn't?
conversely why has Krita embraced SVG (and so offers vector graphics)?
what about .EPS / .AI vector formats?
why do I use bitmap instead of vector?
for me it's the ease of making fills that aren't just a block of solid colour; it's a more "paintbrush in hand" feeling than the click-drag-click of defining a path and then struggling to get a "textured" fill...
and now Moho has blob brush and freehand... but they're (dare I say this??) no substitute AS YET for the brush-in-hand feeling... but if I had brushes for FILL in moho that would help... if I had blend modes at shape level... if ... if ...
so maybe we stop worrying about bitmap in Moho and start thinking about making it much easier to create vector shapes that look as though they've been "painted" rather than being (neatly trimmed, carefully placed, cleverly animated) cut out shapes of coloured paper.
IOW improve blob brush and freehand to the point that bitmap becomes yesterday's technology??
Heya Paul
For me it's about freedom of expression and economy of workflow.
THe question about what does bitmap have is answered here
Vector has advantages and disadvantages, as does bitmap.
They have limitations, we know them both.
Vectors are clean and infinitely adjustable , they are clean and tween; bitmap is fast and expressive and low on resources an idea can come to life with a bitmap quickly and painlessly.
So, the app that rules them all will win in my world as I do use both techniques, for all the reasons.
Currently that app does not exist and artists are forced to play in a bunch of sandpits, dragging themselves between each one to make their sandcastles.
There were a few months when I didn't need to do that and I loved it ( except for the fact that it was lacking features and there were nuclear bugs littered around like landmines- or whatever else you find in sandpits ) I was able to make two videos which were fast effective and fun to make.
yes - I hear you... (and nice artwork BTW). And I can only agree that trying to do that (or anything else such as the chicken / chicks in my earlier post) in vector, right now, is just either impossible or impractical. But my vision (and it is a looooong way off) is that you can do everything you just expertly demo'd exactly as you did with brushes on the single sketch layer but in vectors -- "blob brush" and "freehand" (both mightily enhanced) have all the blend modes (at shape level) and different brushes and ... and ... and ... but they create vector shapes that will deliver art that looks indistinguishable from the same created in bitmap ... until, that is, you zoom in to pick put some detail (that, ofc, you'll need to draw)-- the drip of blood on a claw; the reflection of the prey in the eye...
all the benefits of the "brush in hand" feel combined with the scalability of vector
Cheers Paul.
So if you use Clip studio you would know that making vector brushes that are all but exactly the same as bitmap is very possible.
In that app it works great, but they still have both types of layers, you can use FBF but you can't animate the vectors like in Moho and no z space or camera anim, and whole swathes of stuff. Moho is just decked out for animation (apart from FBF, which is doable but limited).
The drawing itself the strengths of each layer type still remain, that's exactly why they have both in clip.
On a vector layer you can change the width of a stroke after the fact, trim ends, push and pull strokes, it's all awesome.... but the vectors so get heavy if you want to transform or start a bunch of stuff that bitmap does without pause. One thing is that vector points just build up and up while bitmaps are limited to resolution which can be a bad thing or a good thing, totally depending on your needs.
At some time, each layer tech's disadvantages will be eclipsed by the sheer power of the computer, but maybe we have to wait for analogue chips or something, I don't know.
) I was able to make two videos which were fast effective and fun to make.
