Bone Head

Wondering how to accomplish a certain animation task? Ask here.

Moderators: Fahim, Distinct Sun, Víctor Paredes, erey, Belgarath, slowtiger

Post Reply
Swonic
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:46 pm

Bone Head

Post by Swonic » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:07 pm

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DK_LH ... lTe13DTfL8
I'm having trouble with my heads bone. It seems to distort my head, all the layers are already binded. What should I do?
The link above are images of examples of the trouble I'm having
hayasidist
Posts: 2179
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:12 pm
Location: Kent, England

Re: Bone Head

Post by hayasidist » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:38 pm

check the bone strength (tool default shortcut S) and bone binding mode (layer settings bone tab). It looks as though the bones other than the head bone are affecting the points in the head vector and/or the head bone strength is not covering all the points in the head vector.
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4578
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:58 pm

For me, I normally only want a single bone to affect the head layer (unless I actually want the head deformed with multiple bones) so I like to use Layer binding on the head layers. This is a rigid binding method so none of the other bones will deform the contents of those layers. I like Layer binding because it's simple and direct, however I avoid using Layer binding directly on the head group because that prevents me from using bones inside the group (like for the eyes, etc.) Depending on your layers setup, you can select multiple layers and Layer bind them all at once. BTW, Layer binding works even when the bone strength is set to zero, which is useful in some situations.

Alternatively, I'll like to Use Selected Bones For Flexi-binding. Just select the head layers, select only the head bone and apply the command. This excludes all other bones from affecting those selected layers. In this case, the bone will need to have at least a tiny bit of strength to affect the layers.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
Daxel
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:34 pm

Re: Bone Head

Post by Daxel » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:00 am

Greenlaw wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:58 pm
however I avoid using Layer binding directly on the head group because that prevents me from using bones inside the group (like for the eyes, etc.)
I'm not sure if I understood that. When you say "bones inside the group" do you mean bones that are in your main character bone layer but are being used to animate layers that are inside the eye group?
or you are talking about creating another bone layer inside the eye group to control the eye? In this last option, as far as I tested, I cannot see the difference between having the layer bind on the head group or on the eye layer. Either way I can control the eyes with a bone layer created inside the eye group.
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4578
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:05 am

What I mean is that when layer binding is used on a group layer, it prevents you from binding any of the child layers and groups to other bones in that bone layer.

For example, if I Layer bind the Head group to a Head bone, then I won't be able to bind the eyes layer to separate eye bones in that same bone layer (or mouth, nose or hair layers for that matter.) In this situation, it's better to bind the child layers and groups directly to the bones.

Layer Binding is a fast and simple way to rigidly bind stuff to a bone but be aware that the binding terminates the parent bone layer's binding at the level. I typically use Layer Binding for attaching props or accessories to a character I don't intend to deform using using bones.

Normally, I don't recommend nesting bone layers inside the rig. Sure it works but it's awkward to animate a character's bones across one multiple layers. IMO, it's better to keep all the character's bones at the top level whenever possible.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
uncle808us
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by uncle808us » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:57 pm

Greenlaw wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:58 pm
Depending on your layers setup, you can select multiple layers and Layer bind them all at once.
What should the layer setup be to enable layer binding all at once? Thanks
I use a MacBook Pro, and Anime Studio Pro 11.2
http://uncle808s.blogspot.com
Daxel
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:34 pm

Re: Bone Head

Post by Daxel » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:44 pm

Greenlaw wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:05 am
What I mean is that when layer binding is used on a group layer, it prevents you from binding any of the child layers and groups to other bones in that bone layer.

For example, if I Layer bind the Head group to a Head bone, then I won't be able to bind the eyes layer to separate eye bones in that same bone layer (or mouth, nose or hair layers for that matter.) In this situation, it's better to bind the child layers and groups directly.

Normally, I don't recommend nesting bone layers inside the rig. Sure it works but it's awkward to animate a character's bones across one multiple layers. IMO, it's better to keep all the character's bones at the top level whenever possible.
Thanks for your answer! It actually helped me with my rig because I couldn't layer bind the head and also control the iris with point binding, but didn't thought about this possibility. Now I just created a group for the iris, layer binded the iris to the head bone and the iris_group to the iris bone.
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4578
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:49 pm

uncle808us wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:57 pm
What should the layer setup be to enable layer binding all at once? Thanks
With the Bind Layer tool selected, select all the layers you wish to bind, and then click on the bone. All the selected layers should now be bound to that bone.

This works with Use Selected Bones For Flexi-binding too. To do that, select the bones you want to use for Flexi-binding, select all the layers you want to bind to those bones, and then apply the 'Use Selected Bones...' command. All of the selected layers will share the same selective Flexi-binding.

This is a good way to exclude other layers from being deformed by these bones. But for that to happen, you must use any binding method on all the layers in the rig besides the default Flexi-binding method. When the default Flexi-binding is used, all active bones with any strength level will have some affect on the layers using this method. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it can make your character look 'squishy' if you rely only on the default settings. On a related note, binding multiple layers at once is a fast way to set up a rig with the 'Use Selected Bones...' method. (A lot of my King Julian and The Croods rigs were set up this way.)

Just to cover this topic fully: To select multiple layers, use Shift-click to select a consecutive range of layers and Ctrl-click to make non-consecutive selections. You can mix these commands as necessary.

Hope this helps.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
MrMiracle77
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:30 am

Re: Bone Head

Post by MrMiracle77 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:34 pm

Greenlaw wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:49 pm

With the Bind Layer tool selected, select all the layers you wish to bind, and then click on the bone. All the selected layers should now be bound to that bone.

This works with Use Selected Bones For Flexi-binding too. To do that, select the bones you want to use for Flexi-binding, select all the layers you want to bind to those bones, and then apply the 'Use Selected Bones...' command. All of the selected layers will share the same selective Flexi-binding.

This is a good way to exclude other layers from being deformed by these bones. But for that to happen, you must use any binding method on all the layers in the rig besides the default Flexi-binding method. When the default Flexi-binding is used, all active bones with any strength level will have some affect on the layers using this method. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it can make your character look 'squishy' if you rely only on the default settings. On a related note, binding multiple layers at once is a fast way to set up a rig with the 'Use Selected Bones...' method. (A lot of my King Julian and The Croods rigs were set up this way.)
If the eyes are layer-bound to the head bone, though, how do you move them independently with a different bone?

I'm on Debut, so this may not be an option available to me, especially if it's used with group layers. Nested bone layers are a bit inconvenient, but I'm not sure there's other options in the Debut version.
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4578
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:10 pm

MrMiracle77 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:34 pm
If the eyes are layer-bound to the head bone, though, how do you move them independently with a different bone?

I'm on Debut, so this may not be an option available to me, especially if it's used with group layers. Nested bone layers are a bit inconvenient, but I'm not sure there's other options in the Debut version.
Don't bind the eyes to the head bone. Parent the eyes bones to the head and then parent the eyes layers to the eye bones. This allows you to move the eyes (or any face part for that matter,) independently and remain in place relative to the head animation.

You can't do this if you use Layer Binding on a head group containing the eyes layers because Layer Binding will block further binding to child layers. (Unless, of course, you nest another bones layer inside the group...but as mentioned earlier, I don't generally recommend that.)

In Debut, you can use an empty Bone layer as a group layer. It's not as pretty but it generally serves the same function.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4578
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:29 pm

My typical face skeleton setup is:

+ Head Bone (head drawings, maybe hair)
++ Face (all face bones)
+++ EyeL
++++ IrisL
+++ EyeR
++++ IrisR
+++ BrowR
+++ BrowL
+++ Nose
+++ Mouth (Switch Group. Here, I use Layer Binding since I don't normally use bones to animate the mouth.)
++EarL
++EarR
++ Any hair bones (probably a unique setup for each character)

With the above basic setup, I can move all the face parts across the head using a single Face bone. Placed inside a Smart Bone Actions (SBA) I can use it to to simulate turn and nod motions. The ear bones should be animated separately because they may need to move counter to the face bone to look right. You can put some of the ears animation inside the SBAs and have some flexibility to tweak their positions because the animation will be additive. The independent bones for face features are useful in turns and nods.

The eye bones have two levels. The parent eye bone moves the entire eye and the child eye bone moves the Iris relative the the eye position. Sometimes I'll make a parent for both eye bones so I can move both eyes together inside a head turn. Naturally, this Eyes (plural) bone should be parented to the head bone.

I nest every feature inside its own group to help keep things manageable and easy to find.

Many of the characters I create for TV shows can get a lot more complicated than this but they all usually share this basic setup.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
uncle808us
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by uncle808us » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:20 am

Greenlaw wrote:Hope this helps.
More than helps you are so generous in your explanations it is very much appreciated.
I use a MacBook Pro, and Anime Studio Pro 11.2
http://uncle808s.blogspot.com
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4578
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:34 am

Sure. One more thing: I also like to use the Shy command to hide bones that I probably don't need to animate. Some of the face bones, for example, will probably not need to be manually animated so I just Shy them to keep the rig tidy and easier to animate. And when I do need to manually animate any of them, I just un-Shy them.

BTW, the MQC tool I released a few weeks ago has a button to toggle Shy Bones off and on. You can also do this with a shortcut but I find it easier to click a button on the screen, especially when using a tablet.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
User avatar
uncle808us
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by uncle808us » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:39 am

Again thanks.
The MOC tool sounds nice but I am using Anime Studio Pro Ver.11.2.1.
I use a MacBook Pro, and Anime Studio Pro 11.2
http://uncle808s.blogspot.com
User avatar
Greenlaw
Posts: 4578
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:45 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Bone Head

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:51 pm

Oh, yeah...glad you brought that up.

I made MQC 12 after Moho 12 came out but I guess it's possible that it will work with ASP 11. I never tested MQC 12 with ASP 11 since I don't have that version on my laptop.

Back when I was using ASP 11, I set up Wacom's OSD panels to do essentially the same thing, just with fewer commands. (I think OSD was limited to 8 buttons.) MQC just replicates what I had with OSD but with about 3 times more buttons plus a few simple macro commands, and it doesn't require a Wacom tablet.

BTW, if it's necessary to modify MQC 12 for ASP 11, the uncompiled AHK script is included in the .zip. But see if it works without modification first.

Note: Be sure to try MQC 12 and not MQC 13, because MQC 13 will definitely not work correctly with ASP 11. Moho 13 changed some of the hardwired keyboard shortcuts and it has new commands that will be meaningless to Moho 12 and ASP 11. This is why I had to create a new version specifically for Moho 13.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I may still have ASP 11 installed on my desktop at home. I'll test it with MQC 12 when I get a chance.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2019 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, Dreamworks Animation

Image
Post Reply