ASP 10 Drawing tools question

[Víctor Paredes]

So this shape (semi-circle) was done in Illustrator with just 3 points.


What would be the best way to do this in Anime Studio Pro.

3 points in AS

[slowtiger]

I just hate it when Selgin does that.

OK, here's that recipe as well:

Draw circle, erase bottom point.
Select 2 bottom points and make them pointy (cmd-P).
Get Curvature tool, grab top point, drag right as long as possible. Maximum will create a perfect half circle curve.

[sbtamu]

I make half circles like this. I make a triangle using the grid as a guide then I use the curvature tool to round the top.

[heyvern]

Here's how I usually do it.

Remember... you don't have to remove extra points and vectors!!! Just don't include them in the shape. This helps maintain the curve and avoid distortion. On the version to the far right, top part of the bottom vector has parts of the circle removed BUT the TOP part of the curve is exactly the same as the middle version because I left the two extra dangly bits. The curves inside the shape maintains the same curve. If I deleted those dangly bits it would ruin the default circular curve and require tweaking with the curve too.



EDIT: To attach two circles like this you use the transform tool, select one of the points and hit "space" which auto welds. Not sure if everyone knows that trick but it's freaking awesome. I never have "auto weld" turned on anymore. I just hit "space" when adding or moving points to attach. As long as they are fairly close they connect.

This is the only way to connect points on two closed shapes.

[heyvern]

Another trick:

Circles points don't line up, so I copy the vector and paste it then scale up that extra circle. It's exactly centered to the smaller inner circle. Select the outer bigger circle and any points for the smaller one and rotate. The points move exactly around the center. I can easily adjust the points slightly to get them in the right spot to connect.

[Danimal]

I left the two extra dangly bits.

(Butt-head voice) uh huu huu huuu...

OK, proceed with the intelligent discussion now. Sorry to interrupt.

[heiseman]

Heyvern has the right idea. I thought the solution might have been something like that. The other technique using just 3 points does not produce a perfect semi-circle but does a better job than I thought. Heyvern's technique is also useful in creating moon-like shapes.

[luckynth]

Here's a video on some of the newer drawing features in 10. My guess is that if you're used to Flash or Illustrator, there will still be frustrations because the point/curve system still works the same way. They've made improvements and added a couple nifty drawing tools, but haven't changed the way AS drawing works.

Yes, and this is the single thing that puts off my students. The concept of creating and using "Shapes" as opposed to drawing shapes and then filling them with colour (as they do in almost every other program) is difficult for them. I mean, it took me a month to refine my skills in this area and I LOVE Anime Studio!

My wish list is that AS 10.5 will have, out of the box, these features:

a. a pen/Bezier tool
b. the ability to Select and Transform with one tool
c. Shapes renamed to something like Flash's "symbol" to make it clear that there is a distinction between these and what you draw with the Draw Shape tool.
d. the ability to change a Shape's stroke and fill by just selecting it, rather than using a separate tool to do this. In other words, I'd like to see the Select Points and Select Shape tool merged.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[heyvern]

a. a pen/Bezier tool
b. the ability to Select and Transform with one tool
c. Shapes renamed to something like Flash's "symbol" to make it clear that there is a distinction between these and what you draw with the Draw Shape tool.
d. the ability to change a Shape's stroke and fill by just selecting it, rather than using a separate tool to do this. In other words, I'd like to see the Select Points and Select Shape tool merged.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

A. Bezier... well... we all have different opinions about it. It would require a new layer type and is a huge feature requiring new tools, new channels, new lots of stuff. Most likely if this were done it would be in a "major" update. The problem as well with bezier is that many people think it's "missing" and should just be "added in" to what's there which is not the case at all. The decision to NOT use bezier was just as important as including any feature. All of the elements of bezier control exists. It isn't like the programmers are confused and frightened by bezier, it's that putting it in would completely alter the animation results.

Think about it... years ago someone decides to create a new animation program. At the time, bezier was well established. Programming resources and libraries already existed to create yet "another bezier drawing" app to add to all the other ones. The grunt work and behavior of bezier in drawing applications had been done many times over and was already well established. Flash had been around for ages. Choosing not to include bezier control of points in Moho wasn't done through "short sidedness" or "laziness". It was done intentionally because it produced a unique result that made animating vectors much easier and requiring much fewer points.
When I first used Moho that is what I saw. I saw this weird strange vector behavior that wasn't like other applications at all. I saw WHY it was like that and why it worked for animation so much better than Flash or other bezier drawing tools. It was simple and fast.

B. Item B is already in v10 but maybe I don't understand what you meant. The new transform tool allows translation, scaling and rotation of point/s with that one tool.

C. YES! I like the idea of "instances" or "symbols". This has come up many times. Something very similar is used with particle layers. There is really only one of each layer inside a particle layer but those layers are "instanced" multiple times. Another thing are audio and image layers. When you edit images or audio outside of Anime Studio, they update automatically. They are linked external resources. Something similar could be done with Anime Studio files. Link another ASP file inside a project. The imported file is "all there" just as it is now, but that layer would have another property pointing to an external or internal resource (like instancing a layer inside the same document). When you update changes to that instance you could choose to ignore channels.

D. I have no problem with separate tools for shape and drawing. My workflow is to draw first, create shapes second. Then of course I tweak things. When editing points I usually use wireframe view anyway. The other issue is ANIMATION! In other "drawing" apps, selecting both the point and shape with the same tool is fine. During animation I don't want to worry about creating keys for a shape fill by accident when I move a point.

The separate tools isn't a big deal. It's only a problem for those who aren't use to it because it's different from other applications, which are also different from each other (years ago I had to transition from Aldus Freehand to Adobe Illustrator. Same problem. Different programs, different tools equals "learning curve").

[ddrake]

It's an interesting ongoing discussion, but I do think it's a little odd that there's sometimes such disdain for learning a different approach to drawing with different software.

For example, you wouldn't buy a video game and get really good at it and then buy a totally different game and expect to be really good at it right away. "I would be so amazing at this game if it had different or better controls." You'd still have to spend some time playing and learning, right?

[Danimal]

For example, you wouldn't buy a video game and get really good at it and then buy a totally different game and expect to be really good at it right away. "I would be so amazing at this game if it had different or better controls." You'd still have to spend some time playing and learning, right?

Good analogy. To extend it a bit, it's a little like saying "Man I love Contra! I'd love Super Mario Brothers 3 a lot more if it were just Contra!" (sorry, old NES games are all I ever play).

Anime Studio is wonderful just as it is. If I wanted it to be something else, I'd just use that something else. I hated the drawing tools at first too because they were, in fact, like nothing else out there. However, once you learn them, they're miles ahead of what else is out there. The hatred gives way to just realizing you aren't used to using something that can do what you want SIMPLY. Making them work like everything else would be a tragic mistake.

[heyvern]

It's an interesting ongoing discussion, but I do think it's a little odd that there's sometimes such disdain for learning a different approach to drawing with different software.

Yes I agree.

For a while I couldn't afford Photoshop and used Gimp. It was sooooo different but at the end of the day the results were identical to what I could do in Photoshop.. it just took a bit longer at first because it was so weird . I don't use MS Office any more either. I have used all the MS products for years and years but once again, couldn't afford it and had to find something else to open client files. I started to use Open Office and although quite different from MS Office the end result were "the same". I am using Google Docs now much more than Open Office. Same thing... different app that does "the same thing in a different way".

[heiseman]

One important thing is that bezier drawing tools would allow for better importing of illustrator artwork. In a studio environment where artists and animators work together, this is very important. Although many of you have no problem tracing artwork, this can be time consuming if there are 20 or so characters and they are moderately to highly detailed.

[slowtiger]

One important thing is that bezier drawing tools would allow for better importing of illustrator artwork. In a studio environment where artists and animators work together, this is very important.

I don't get this one. If it's already decided to do the animation in AS, why build final characters in Illustrator anyway? I'd do designs in Photoshop or TVPaint, from sketches to colour, and after approval do a clean version in AS. I have to prepare lots of details anyway for good rigging, so why work in Illustrator which doesn't know about this and only causes trouble and additional work?

[Pesto]

In the example above, how do you get more than 4 points on a sphere so you can create the crescent moon shape?

Thanks