I've been following this forum for months and months now, and I keep getting the feeling that I'm seeing the emergence of a cornerstone for the animation industry of the future.
I just wish I was far enough along with this application to be part of it.
That's why the tutorials and books and improvements to the application and its documentation are so important.
Keep working! Keep working!
Trying to get a more dynamic template...
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
These rigs are mostly me testing ideas for how to get complex characters to move without looking robotic. To get full control you need a mix of "Manipulate Bones", "Translate Bones", and "Scale Bones", though all the mechanisms are fairly simple.Thatch wrote:Interesting though obviously beyond my current abilities as I have no clue how you are moving the thing around. "Manipulate Bones" gives me very rudimentary control of the figure. Wish I knew more about these rigs.
For his arms and legs, use the Scale tool on the main bone. The horizontal bone across the leg is simply set to get longer as the leg itself gets shorter, which makes his knee stick out as his foot gets closer to his hips. I did this so I could move his knee independently of his leg using the Translate tool, making it easy to tilt his leg towards or away from the viewer. I'll probably go back to using a normal bone setup on his arms, though, since that seemed to look better.
The Translate tool can be used on his nose, large toe, or the bone on the side of his hips/ribs to tilt parts of his body. This only works for around 45 degrees of rotation, but it's main function is just to minimize the amount of point-by-point modification I'll have to do later.
In cases like this, when certain bones are translated others are set to move a certain amount based off this. For instance, moving his left shoulder forward makes his right shoulder move backwards, simplifying the process of rotating his upper torso.
Currently I'm working on another version; I want to apply a lot of the concepts I learned in this thread to a more "conventional" model setup (e.g. one riddled with switch layers). I dissected poor Winsor and Aya and from that have obtained some ideas how I'll set it up and hierarchy my model, though it'll take some learning since I don't think I've ever made a model with more than four layers before.
Hm... is there a way (via a script or "naturally" =P) I can have bone constraints cross layers? Like, the angle of a bone in one bone layer affect the angle of one on an entirely different layer? A global variable, of sorts? I want to break the character into a few layers so I can switch different parts separately, but be able to control most of it from a main skeleton.
Also, though less important, is there a way to automate switches based off the angles, lengths or positions of bones? I can think of some very fun things this would enable, and scripts that do things such as change a layer's Z position based on bones are only a step away.
My thoughts are, that if the above are possible, I can have a main skeleton layer with several switches layers inside it, one for the torso, one for the head, etc. When a bone on the main skeleton is moved (such as the one that controls head tilt), I can have it also move the bones in the head switch layer AND switch between different "heads" as necessary to do turns.
Also, though less important, is there a way to automate switches based off the angles, lengths or positions of bones? I can think of some very fun things this would enable, and scripts that do things such as change a layer's Z position based on bones are only a step away.
My thoughts are, that if the above are possible, I can have a main skeleton layer with several switches layers inside it, one for the torso, one for the head, etc. When a bone on the main skeleton is moved (such as the one that controls head tilt), I can have it also move the bones in the head switch layer AND switch between different "heads" as necessary to do turns.
All your request have done yet.
For bone control search for "master control bone" or something similar. heyvern was the script author. You can scrub the scripting are before because you'll find it easily.
For layer order based on bones position there is one done by Rasheed (flipbybones) it is sticky in the scripting area.
Good luck.
-G
For bone control search for "master control bone" or something similar. heyvern was the script author. You can scrub the scripting are before because you'll find it easily.
For layer order based on bones position there is one done by Rasheed (flipbybones) it is sticky in the scripting area.
Good idea. It would need a combination of scripts to control everything from the same layer. But anyway REMEMBER you can do it by hand with no need of any script.My thoughts are, that if the above are possible, I can have a main skeleton layer with several switches layers inside it, one for the torso, one for the head, etc. When a bone on the main skeleton is moved (such as the one that controls head tilt), I can have it also move the bones in the head switch layer AND switch between different "heads" as necessary to do turns.
Good luck.
-G
Thanks Genete. However, new question:
Has anyone made a bone modification tool that functions similarly in animation as the Translate Bones tool does on Frame 0? I checked the Scripts section, but couldn't find anything like that.
The Frame 0 Translate tool can move bones by grabbing them at the base and scale and rotate them by grabbing them at the tip, which makes setting up rigs a lot easier. I see no reason why there couldn't be a similar "super tool" for animation (like, combining Manipulate, Scale, and Translate tools that are available when animating).
Has anyone made a bone modification tool that functions similarly in animation as the Translate Bones tool does on Frame 0? I checked the Scripts section, but couldn't find anything like that.
The Frame 0 Translate tool can move bones by grabbing them at the base and scale and rotate them by grabbing them at the tip, which makes setting up rigs a lot easier. I see no reason why there couldn't be a similar "super tool" for animation (like, combining Manipulate, Scale, and Translate tools that are available when animating).
I'm just working on something similar to that now!
I've created an embedded script that allow to rotate and scale a bone using the angle of two other bones. It is similar (and based on) to the 3D rig but the bone is "like rotated in 3D" with its length fixed and what you see is its X/Y projection.
If you're interested (*) I can post the beta release in your post. For the moment it doesn't work as I want so I reserve it until it is fixed.
Nothing related to a super tool that allow scale rotate and translate at the same time. I was thinking on that but this is a hard bone to eat because the translate bone tool is a very complex script.
(*) Ask me and I post it.
-G
I've created an embedded script that allow to rotate and scale a bone using the angle of two other bones. It is similar (and based on) to the 3D rig but the bone is "like rotated in 3D" with its length fixed and what you see is its X/Y projection.
If you're interested (*) I can post the beta release in your post. For the moment it doesn't work as I want so I reserve it until it is fixed.
Nothing related to a super tool that allow scale rotate and translate at the same time. I was thinking on that but this is a hard bone to eat because the translate bone tool is a very complex script.
(*) Ask me and I post it.
-G
Thanks for the offer, but your 3D stuff is WAY over my level =P. Pity about there being no rotate/scale combo tool, though; I can hardly think of anything more important for a program like this.Genete wrote:(*) Ask me and I post it.
Alright, have a new model. Breaking the character into lots of layers wasn't working well, so I tried moving in a simpler, more stylized direction (namely with the hands and torso).
Also, I came up with a new way to do eyes. Since masks don't export to Flash, I made the eyes into "holes" in the head shape. The head itself is made up of two shapes: the head, properly colored and with eye holes, and behind it an all-white version without eye holes (using the same points). This way, I can sandwich the pupils between the head and the eyewhites. Er, if that makes no sense, just take a look at the file.
To get the jacket to turn properly, I made the far side of it transparent. Learned that trick while browsing this forum
Here's the file. I went back through after the initial bone animation and adjusted points manually this time to get a more finished product:
http://foxmage.com/JackalKneel.anme
Hmm.. also, I've been considering ditching outlines completely. For some reason I feel like it looks more professional, though I can't pinpoint why. I rendered the file twice to get some opinions:
http://foxmage.com/JackalKneel.swf
http://foxmage.com/JackalSanOutlines.swf
Lovely work.Kazerad wrote:...
I've been considering ditching outlines completely. For some reason I feel like it looks more professional, though I can't pinpoint why...
The outlines you're using are very plain. Perhaps you would like them more if they were richer brushstrokes?
Last edited by human on Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks.human wrote:Lovely work.
Hm.. my aversion to weighted lines is mainly a technical thing with the Flash export, and Flash is what I'm ultimately going to be putting these into (and doing my lipsyncing in). When exporting weighted lines to Flash, Anime Studio breaks every bit of line between two points into a new group, usually increasing filesize a lot and making Flash lag.human wrote:Perhaps you're not being really fair to the world of outlines, though. The outlines you're using are very plain. Perhaps you would like them more if they were richer brushstrokes?
For the sake of experiment, I went back and weighted the lines (still doesn't match hand-drawn ones, but looks a bit nicer). Since this model is pretty low-poly, it only made it about 3-4 times its usual size.
http://foxmage.com/JackalKneelWeight.swf
My worries aren't so much about high filesize - though that's definitely one; those 45 frames are almost half a meg with weighted lines - but that displaying that many symbols will slow down Flash.
I can always select it all and break the symbols apart, but that's very sloppy; transparency won't work right and lines I don't weight will always appear on top, unless I convert them to fills first.
I've been leaning that way as well but for completely different reasons. They are a pain to deal with because of turning and changing shapes (I like to use strokes as "shading".), zooming in and out and maintaining proper stroke weights.Hmm.. also, I've been considering ditching outlines completely. For some reason I feel like it looks more professional, though I can't pinpoint why. I rendered the file twice to get some opinions:
Eliminating strokes completely would make things much easier... and you are right it does have a clean sparse look to it.
-vern
No.human wrote:Hey Vern, one of the (many) things I admired about your Secret Agent project was the sassy ink strokes on the characters. Do you feel that work would look as good without the strokes?heyvern wrote:Eliminating strokes completely would make things much easier...
That is why I've been only THINKING about eliminating the strokes.
Or at least reducing them.I like those strokes too but MAN they cause a lot of trouble. For instance certain strokes are like "shadow lines" that will move and change at different angles so they have to be "disconnected" from the main "outline" so they can move away from the head or move into the face etc... and they have to change layer order as well. If a portion of a stroke that is part of the "head" moves in towards the face as it turns then the stroke on the head has to remain to close the shape and look right. I often end up with strange areas that don't have a stroke where they should.
I refuse to animate stroke thickness. I'm too lazy.
"Stroke-less" art work eliminates a lot of the hassle. It is however a completely different style.
The biggest frustration I have with strokes is maintaining consistent weight. How thick should the stroke be on certain elements in the composition? I can't stand it when there are thick and thin strokes in the "wrong" place... it really bothers me and I think it just looks "bad".
Maintaining consistent stroke weights is a bit difficult with AS. I would love a "global" stroke compensation option. No matter what scale a layer is or how far in and out the camera zooms... an option to lock down the stroke weight of a style or fill would be fantastic.
-vern
What about limited outline use, where those that are used are weighted? I tried rendering the shot again only using outlines where they helped clarify the image (face, pants, scarf) and left everywhere else, where they weren't as important, outlineless:
http://foxmage.com/JackalLesslines.swf
Any opinions on how this compares to the others would be appreciated. I'm a horrible judge of my own work, and want to know if I've hit a "happy middle-ground" or have just failed at two different styles at once =P.
http://foxmage.com/JackalLesslines.swf
Any opinions on how this compares to the others would be appreciated. I'm a horrible judge of my own work, and want to know if I've hit a "happy middle-ground" or have just failed at two different styles at once =P.