Animr and character rigging techniques, illustrator files...

[thedoc]

i like the way Moho works see? but think of it combined with frame by frame drawing see?

you mentioned pencil testers? what are those? I think i might try drawing in flash then importing the work in Moho... i'll need to fool aroound a bit more.
But i would still like to know what you guys do... how you do it, do you auto trace? do you draw in illustrator? do you use graphic tablets or mice? what projects you have done and how you went about it.... I think if you guys could spare the time and write a "the making" article of a project you have done (no matter how short) and maybe post a short .swf or .mov,.avi of whatever you've done with how you've done it... what process.
See the thing is i've been using Moho for what? a few weeks and i need to find out what people who've been using it for a span do and what process they use coz Moho's way of animation is new to me.

you can PM me if you feel your submitions aer too long or email me a zip file with stuff in it like moho files of the projects you did... I think that might do the trick,
I know this sounds like a tall order but if you have the time to do it, i would greatly appreciate it very much.

thanks for the help.[/quote]

[musajoe]

I create my stuff in Flash 2004 Pro (using a .25 line). I export as an .ai file (version 5) and import the body parts into Moho. I clean up the vetor parts (just a little, it does not have to be perfect). Then I RIGG EM' UP!!!

Here is a sample of a walking cat:

http://www.flashfilmmaker.com/sketchpad ... 0448&pos=0

I did the body parts in flash (a cut up leg, arm and torso) using a line with of .25. I like a nice "thin" line so I have to use a tiny line (.25) for the exported vector.

Moho make line big so you have to make sre that the source vector has a small line. Moho does not do gradient to well ( It doesn't need to do them as far as I'm concerned...).

You really have to "give" Moho a file it can work with to get good results. Using a "tricked out" vector image using Illustrator CS will not work. CS creates a "high grade" vector. Moho just can translate those .ai files.

Just play around with exported vectors ( or anything that looks good saved/exported as a Illustrator .ai file (version 5) to see how Moho translates them.

MJ

[thedoc]

i see... do you use a graphic tablet? have you ever attempted a long project?

[musajoe]

I use a tablet PC A fujitsu 3400 ( $300 on ebay). Man, using a tablet PC is THE ONLY WAY TO GO!!! I was using a wacom but with the tablet pc I can do sooo much more. I'm currently working on animating this comic I drew:

http://www.comicssherpa.com/site/featur ... e=20040730

I have all the audio and flash files ready. I have my vector files imported in Moho ready to rigg. I have an app ( homegrown, made in Flash) that I use to lip sync (via Actionscript) using the amplitude (via FlashAmp) of the .mp3 files.

I use actionscript to "read" the amplitude of the .mp3 file. Using actionscript makes lipsyncing a snap!

Most animators say NOT to use movieclips and actionscript. Using movieclips and actionscript makes life EZ! It's like you are building "smart puppets" that you can "command" via code (actionscript).

So far I have to animate (using Moho/rigging). I will then import all the Moho .swf ( as imported movieclips) and add my lipsynced scenes and any other flash driven animation as a series of Flash files (.swf).

I will then export the .swf files using a "swf to video" application to create my .mov or .avi files. I will then composite/edit the .mov or .avi files (using After Effects) into one movie/file.

When done, I will have a cartoon version of my comic strip. (.mov or .avi )

[musajoe]

I took off last week setting all this stuff up. I spent about 60 hours ( 6 days) working on it. Everything I've done so far is like "pre-production" work. So i'm done with that. Next up: PRODUCTION!!!!!

I'll compile the time breakdowns (pre-production) and post it here.
I wrote down how long it took me to do stuff.

I'm trying to see how productive I can be using Moho/Flash/AE/soundForge/Goldwave/FlashAmp/
to make animated versions of my comic strips.

[TheTallGuy]

I use a tablet PC A fujitsu 3400 ( $300 on ebay). Man, using a tablet PC is THE ONLY WAY TO GO!!!

Isn't this one of Fujitsu's older models? I recall wondering if they were powerful enough to run current PC applications. (Though I'd guess that Moho would perform well, given its small footprint.)

How do you use it in your normal routine?

[spasmodic_cheese]

tablet pc's are AWSOME, esp for animating and drawing, well any sort of art

I have toshiba m200 and it is a dream using flash and moho, etc.

I scribble on my tablet pc all the time now, no need for pen and paper.
once ive done a good illustration, i plug my normal monitor into it and colour it.

Since laptops screens can be abit unpredictable.

then i wing my tablet montior around and do the usual converting to ai for moho, rebuild, and start animating.

I love it alot better because you can do drawings that has your unique styling to it.

[musajoe]

Its is an older one (win 98 128 Ram/6gig HD, usb support). I have Moho, Illustrator 9, Photoshop 6 and Flash 5 on it. I use it as a "sketchpad".

I draw everything in Flash and export as a .ai file. When I use the current version of Moho ( 5 b.4) I can open/import/work in Moho. It is slower ( I would say 50 to 60% slower) that when I work on my main Pc win XP 1 gig of ram.

I usally just save my vectors and flash files to a usb drive or save to my network and do the majority of my work (actionscrpting, FlashDev, Moho rigging...) on my main PC (Win XP 1 gig Ram 60 Gig HD).

The tablet is great for doing "work" while watcing TV.

[thedoc]

you say that you do your lipsinc in flash? wow! i never could have thought of that... currently i was just drawing the characters in flash and then exporting for the rigging in moho, I then test out a few things there... i used to do cartoons in flash... i actually done a full music video but when you export to AVI... the movieclips dont play. it it a bit on the frustrating side really. i'll try the animation export to .swf and see how tht works....

can you give me an in depth review of your method? i find it highly interesting.

[thedoc]

hey there...

well in my tests and animation i encountered some... problems... and by the way guys... i'm using Moho 4.6... i gather there's a V. 5?

anyway if you want to move a character... you use bones correct? how come the movement or translation doea dot appear in the time line? nor does the camrera movement as well.

I also want to FLIP my character so that he goes the opposite direction but when i do that and translate him the last postion he was in gets translated as well... it's now so frustrating! does'nt Moho have an easier way of managing this?

if more of you can keep the 'the makings' coming and more explanations... it wold help a lot.

[spasmodic_cheese]

in the timeline panel you can set which sort of keyframes you want to display, you can turn them on or off..

yup moho 5 is in beta stage 4 atm, check the announcements section on the main forum page.

[TheTallGuy]

i gather there's a V. 5?

Yes. It's in Beta right now. The only problem you'll have is that there still are hardly any documentation files with it, so you're on your own.

anyway if you want to move a character... you use bones correct? how come the movement or translation doea dot appear in the time line? nor does the camrera movement as well.

My memory of v4.6 is already getting a little dim, but it sounds like you're working in Frame 0. Check the timeline window at the bottom of the screen. You use Frame 0 to set up the objects in each layer. You then animate them starting in Frame 1. (Frame 0 does not appear in your movie.)

Unlike Flash, in Moho 4 you have to select your frame and create a key BEFORE you start changing things (moving points or bones, changing colors, etc.). Just right click on the appropriate row of the timeline at the desired frame, and use the pop-up menu to create the key. Otherwise, your changes will get folded back into the earlier key.

If you haven't done it yet, you really should do all the tutorials provided in the Help menu. I know that I did NOT initially, and I just limped along not really understanding things until I forced myself to take 2 hours and just do it. Moho's amazingly powerful, but it does some things very differently from the competition.

Version 5 handles key creation more intuitively, I think. You can find the download URL for the beta elsewhere in this forum. But v5 has a lot of new features, very little documentation and no tutorials at the moment. So you may find it more trouble than it's worth to you at this stage.

PS: You don't HAVE to use bones to animate. If you're a flash guy, you can rotate layers, which is like the translation tool in Flash. Or you can just grab points and move them around. Or a mix of all three.

[thedoc]

do you mind being a bit more detailed? i cant see the translation points in the timeline so if i make a mistake i cant do anything to rectify.....


where do i get Moho 5 anyway? it's not there on the site (lostmarble.com)

[TheTallGuy]

do you mind being a bit more detailed? i cant see the translation points in the timeline so if i make a mistake i cant do anything to rectify.....

Hey, Lost Marble! How about a tutorial called "Moho for Flash Users"? It would come in very handy, since Moho looks like Flash but actually works a bit differently.

Anyway, TheDoc, Moho gives you the ability to set keys for different aspects of your animation. (Unlike Flash, where you get one and only one.) One key for translating points, one key for translating bones, one key for translating layers, etc. If you scroll down the timeline, you'll see all the things you can have keys for. This is hugely powerful.

(I learned Moho before I learned Flash. When I first tried to animate in Flash, I felt like a I was being confined in a very small box.)

However, with great power comes, er. great confusion. You have to specifically set keys in the different "channels" before you move things around. So this is more confusing than Flash, where you don't have to manually create keys at all.

Go to the Help menu, open up the help files, and locate the tutorials. Read 'em. If you're like me, you'll be thinking that you know a bunch of other tools already, tutorials are for newbies, Moho's just like them, forget it. Read the tutorials anyway. That's where Lost Marble has put most of their help effort, and it shows.

THEN come back to the forum if you have questions -- and you might. We'll all be glad to help you.

where do i get Moho 5 anyway? it's not there on the site (lostmarble.com)

Yep, it's not on the site. But it is in this forum in the Announcements section.

[TheTallGuy]

By the way, the Help files will also tell you what all the cryptic icons down the left side of the timeline are all about. When you find that page in the Help, bookmark it so you can refer back to it quickly.

Once you've done some successful animation, you won't need that page anymore. But it'll do wonders for you now.