"Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby strider2000 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:04 am

Super duper cool! Thanks for sharing Victor :D

I've been trying to think of a way to do this type of thing. In particular I wanted to have the different body positions, and of course, as you show the arm positions, but I kept thinking I'd have to create multiple bone layers. The idea of moving the bones "off camera" and is so nice, because it's so clear and easy to do. The other thing I was trying to do was to move the bone, relative to the vector layer, to accomplish this, and I couldn't figure out how to do it. Now I see, I don't need to do that, just have multiple bones off sight.

I know I am one of many who greatly appreciate all the ideas you share, because you always seem to find elegant and simple ways to bring characters to life. Thanks again!
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby Maestral » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:47 am

Perhaps the torso would be accessible in the same manner as the limbs if additional bone would be added to the "root" bone of the rig, so the parenting would go toward that additional bone and not to the bones of the torso (as usual)? Perhaps some constraining should be done but I think that would enable the torso for this technique.

... which is amazing. Thanks for the share and the heads up, Victor.
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby hayasidist » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:49 am

I haven't got too far past "working concept" with this yet, but inspired by what Victor has done:

main skeleton -- has an "upper arm bone" pin bone on the end of a "collar bone" as well as other bones
> torso / head etc vector layers "as usual"
> switch for arm -- bind this layer to the main skeleton "upper arm pin bone". This layer also has a "upper arm pin bone"
>> bone layer arm pose 1 -- bind this layer to the switch arm "upper arm pin bone" - this layer has bones to control the "pose 1" arm
>>> vector(s) for arm pose 1
>> bone layer arm pose 2 -- bind this layer to the switch arm "upper arm pin bone" - this layer has bones to control the "pose 2" arm
>>> vector(s) for arm pose 2
(etc)

I'll aim to post an example sometime later today.

edit: http://download1581.mediafire.com/k4udcp9kz8bg/9sjv16jegtk1y9j/switch_bones_arms_03.moho left arm from Victor's first example reworked (leaving something to be desired but it's tolerably adequate to illustrate the point)

IMO conceptually easier to do than the smart bone switch translating stuff in and out of view... but opinions welcomed!
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby Greenlaw » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:16 pm

Maestral wrote:Perhaps the torso would be accessible in the same manner as the limbs...

I'm probably going to use this for hair locks that need different bone setups at different angle poses.

In the past, I had to use multiple bone rigs and color-coded them so I could tell them apart. That was still too confusing though. More recently, I started nesting hair rigs inside the switches in their normal positions, but that's been a hassle too since I have to keep drilling down to access these bones. Plus, other animators using the rig might not know those bones are 'hidden' down there.

I think Victor's solution might work much better for this.
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby Maestral » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:07 am

I could be easily either wrong or just lost in translation. It was just me "thinking out loud".

Additional bone should only take the part in the bones parenting, instead of the (common) torso/root bone rig, which I presumed would make the torso bones accessible to Victor`s already defined approach for limbs.
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby Greenlaw » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:40 am

Sorry, I mis-read your post. I was just thinking out loud too. :)
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby funksmaname » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:45 am

I think the problem is if you have multiple limb options that need to reparent to multiple body options it becomes impossible to maintain.

I expect a script and naming convention could possible handle linking of parts when switched but I can't think of a way to do it with the existing tools (I tried yesterday, it quickly started falling apart)
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby synthsin75 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:07 am

Here's a quick proof of concept for Maestral's idea:
(obsolete file removed)

I made all the swapped bones shy, so you'll need to hide them while animating the constrained bones they overlap.
Last edited by synthsin75 on Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby funksmaname » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:21 am

Hey synth, but this is assuming all bone swaps have the same bone structure so they can be controlled by a core 'controller' bone, in which case you may as well just swap the artwork with a switch? - what if you wanted to swap a 3 bone body with a 1 bone body?
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby synthsin75 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:44 am

Here's a much more robust version (replaces last link): (obsolete file removed)

This one doesn't rely on constrained bones and allows any number and hierarchy of bones for each swap.
Last edited by synthsin75 on Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby funksmaname » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:02 am

HOW THE H.... :shock:
!!

---

aah, I see... nice work... but, while the entire rig is interchangeable, you can't mix and match head/arm/torso combinations without them all being set up as single options... hmmm
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby synthsin75 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:24 am

Wow, frame zero got really screwed up on that somehow. Back to the drawing board.
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby synthsin75 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:38 am

Okay, no where near as easy to setup as Victor's limb swap, but I have successfully done torso and limbs swaps, in any combination.
I'm calling it a modular rig (credit to Victor for the initial idea):
https://sites.google.com/site/synthsin/ ... ects=0&d=1

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There's quite a few fiddly issues that you have to know how to handle when creating this rig.
Hint for anyone trying to do reparenting by smart bone:
  • Make sure all the bones you want to reparent have parents on frame zero.
  • Place copies of the frame zero translation and reparent keyframes on frame one.
Took me quite awhile to figure those out.
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby Greenlaw » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:13 am

Hey Victor,

I finally got to try this 'switch rig' technique today. I needed to rig a character with arms that had regular joints and noodle joints. The technique works really well for this sort of thing--it's so nice to animate a setup like this without overlapping rigs or nested/hidden rigs.

Thanks for sharing your idea. :)
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Re: "Switch Bones" technique (a very useful one...)

Postby Víctor Paredes » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:55 pm

Thanks, Dennis
If you can, please share any of your test. I would love to see what you can do with this.

To the rest, I'm sorry I haven't been able to follow the thread so far. I will read and investigate all that when I have some time.
Thank you for posting your ideas.
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