I guess I am going to be unpopular here, but I LIKE the "MOHO floating" look.
Other than that, I have two observations:
1. if you don't like that look, you can take steps so that you don't get that effect, as you are discussing in this thread.
2. I have seen this flowing floating effect in other animations I've seen throughout my life, none of them could have been made with Moho since Moho did not exist then, so I assume it was a style the animators were going after on purpose.
Stephen
The "floating" or "flowing" Moho look
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
It also happens in 3D programs employing bones to create the in-between animation.stephen wrote: 2. I have seen this flowing floating effect in other animations I've seen throughout my life, none of them could have been made with Moho since Moho did not exist then, so I assume it was a style the animators were going after on purpose.
Stephen
The comments I have seen others make (not here) is that it tags your animation with "look at that animation movement - it was made with (fill in the blank) software".
And everybody´s animation made with that software then acquires that look - if they don´t know how to get rid of it.
One wants to differentiate their animation from others , I guess....
So perhaps the "Moho Flow" is just a problem to me.
@Toontoonz: Personally I don't like the whole idea of using actions, because they seem too restrictive to me. I guess repetitive action can just as well be done by copying keyframes and tweaking the animation from cycle to cycle, so it doesn't look so "mechanical".
The "Moho look" you referring to seems to me a simple mismatch between translation of the layer/group and the animation in the action (steps don't coincide with distance traveled), or overlapping actions which are not compatible. As Steven suggested, it can be avoided.
The "Moho look" you referring to seems to me a simple mismatch between translation of the layer/group and the animation in the action (steps don't coincide with distance traveled), or overlapping actions which are not compatible. As Steven suggested, it can be avoided.
If I said actions I don´t mean "actions" as a function in Moho (Window > Actions) (Tutorial 5.6), but the act of doing something different. The character does the action of walking then the action of throwing then the action of sitting.RASH wrote:@Toontoonz: Personally I don't like the whole idea of using actions, because they seem too restrictive to me. I guess repetitive action can just as well be done by copying keyframes and tweaking the animation from cycle to cycle, so it doesn't look so "mechanical".
??????????????????????RASH wrote: The "Moho look" you referring to seems to me a simple mismatch between translation of the layer/group and the animation in the action (steps don't coincide with distance traveled), or overlapping actions which are not compatible. As Steven suggested, it can be avoided.
Again, my discussion has nothing to do with creating actions in Moho (Tutorial 5.6). Sorry if this is confusing.
You say it can be avoided - how???
Ah, I see what you meanToontoonz wrote:Try making a multi-appendaged character move from one action to another and see if you experience the Moho Flow.
I tried to do what you suggested and used the character from the Moho tutorial file (5.6) and animated it in keyframes. It needed a lot of tweaking, because the position of relatively non-moving limbs (during walking: left or right heel while it's touching the ground) wasn't fixed in the layer.
After putting a lot of layer translation keyframes in the bone layer of the character, the Moho flow was less obvious. I didn't need to stop the character between actions. I could keep him moving all the time.
I made the movie (97 Kb) 7 s long at 12 fps. The zipped Moho file is available too.
I noticed something else when I watched Rosie again. The dragon's (walking from right to left) right leg is taking too long steps in comparison with the left leg.
Is this what is meant by the Moho flow, or is it simply an animation error?
Is this what is meant by the Moho flow, or is it simply an animation error?
Rash - glad you see the Moho Flow effect - it is the constant flowing/floating motion from one action/position to another. It is caused by having no stops put in the motion, but the body or parts there of are always moving to that next, new position keyframe.
The key I think to stopping the Moho flow is that when a subject does an action, before it moves onto the next action, all movement of the subject stops for a few frames in the last position before moving onto the next postion.
Something like this:
Throw......hold frames.....bend....hold frames....reach up arms.
Not this:
throw, bend, reach up arms.
The key I think to stopping the Moho flow is that when a subject does an action, before it moves onto the next action, all movement of the subject stops for a few frames in the last position before moving onto the next postion.
Something like this:
Throw......hold frames.....bend....hold frames....reach up arms.
Not this:
throw, bend, reach up arms.
But in real life these actions aren't possible as well? I guess in real life it goes like this (overlapping actions between square brackets):Toontoonz wrote:Not this:
throw, bend, reach up arms.
thro..[prepare to bend]..w, ben..[prepare to reach up arms]..d, reach up arms.
The overlapping animation (between [ ] ) is the most difficult to do, in my experience, because it is so minimal (read: secundary action), otherwise the primary action would go unnoticed.
And then you have to take into account that darn Moho flow as well, grrr.
The law of the Moho flow is everything in motion stays in motion in between actions.
In real life some parts of are in motion between actions, but not every part of the character is constantly moving.
Example - doing the following sequential actions: bend down, stand up, throw, walk. In real life people doing that motion parts of the body stop or pause (even for a small amount) at different times, while other parts are continually in motion (but at different rates of motion).
With the Moho flow, no parts ever stop moving - they are always in the same smooth motion, floating to that next keyframe postion.
A combination of pauses between motion and adjusting the rate of motion (linear, smooth, ease in & out) for different parts of the character can help reduce or stop this floating sensation of the character.
Plus cutting up the scene (don´t show three actions in the same shot, for example) and showing the scene/character from a different angle(s) can help.
In real life some parts of are in motion between actions, but not every part of the character is constantly moving.
Example - doing the following sequential actions: bend down, stand up, throw, walk. In real life people doing that motion parts of the body stop or pause (even for a small amount) at different times, while other parts are continually in motion (but at different rates of motion).
With the Moho flow, no parts ever stop moving - they are always in the same smooth motion, floating to that next keyframe postion.
A combination of pauses between motion and adjusting the rate of motion (linear, smooth, ease in & out) for different parts of the character can help reduce or stop this floating sensation of the character.
Plus cutting up the scene (don´t show three actions in the same shot, for example) and showing the scene/character from a different angle(s) can help.
An additional thing I have done with bone animation for a while is to intentionally begin and end the motions of each bone at different frames. Even if they only differ in their motions by a few frames, it does a lot to cut down the look of a smooth, automatic interpolation from one pose to the next. For example, I'll have an upper arm start moving first, the forearm a bit after, and probably a few keyframes extra for lag on the beginning of a move, and a bit or recoiol at the end of one. From my work on stop-motion in particular, and animatronics as well, I found that if a limb stops on a dime, it won't look too natural. Most often, if a move doesn't decelerate easily to a stop, as with a fast movement, the limb will come back a bit towards it's previous direction at the end of the move. Muscles are in the end rubbery things, and that always seemed to help to impart a more realistic feel. Don't have any reason to think it wouldn't hold in 2D as well.
Also, using the closest "correct" keyframe interpolation type for the move at hand can help a lot. I tried an experiment earlier. I took an animation I was pretty happy with, almost all Smooth keyframes, selected all of the bone keyframes. Then played through the animation having changed every bone keyframe to a different interpolation type. It really makes a complete and radical change in the look of the movement. Try it. It's a brute force approach, but good to show the differences the particular interpolation curve can make.
Also, using the closest "correct" keyframe interpolation type for the move at hand can help a lot. I tried an experiment earlier. I took an animation I was pretty happy with, almost all Smooth keyframes, selected all of the bone keyframes. Then played through the animation having changed every bone keyframe to a different interpolation type. It really makes a complete and radical change in the look of the movement. Try it. It's a brute force approach, but good to show the differences the particular interpolation curve can make.
Another comment on floating moho
I think the main culprit of the "floating moho jellyfish" look in the animation "Rosie" was caused by having the interpolation option checked on for the mouth switch layers.
In general (not in Rosie in particular) this causes the mouth to gradually form the position of the next sound right after the current sound, and in some cases, way too early, especially if it is occuring between sentences.
It's also important to remember to put a keyframe in the timeline in the frame before you start moving a bone; otherwise, the bone will start "floating" to the new position way too early.
I followed these techniques with the last couple of animations I created with Moho and I don't think they suffer from the floating look.
In general (not in Rosie in particular) this causes the mouth to gradually form the position of the next sound right after the current sound, and in some cases, way too early, especially if it is occuring between sentences.
It's also important to remember to put a keyframe in the timeline in the frame before you start moving a bone; otherwise, the bone will start "floating" to the new position way too early.
I followed these techniques with the last couple of animations I created with Moho and I don't think they suffer from the floating look.
What you animated, no matter how it is animated, the Moho flow would never occur.RASH wrote:[img]]
I only used add points, translate points, union skinning, cycle and translate layer to create the design and animation of this walking rectangle. It seems walk cycles can also be created without bones, and that the so-called "Moho flow" is practically non-existant.
The Moho flow occurs when there is more than one action involved and more body parts moving. Your object is doing one action - walking and two "legs" are moving back and forth.
For the Moho flow to occur there would have to be a walk then immediately a squat or a jump or other completely different action. Plus there has to be more body parts moving - arms, hands, feet, head, shoulders, upper torso, head, hair. All these parts and bones moving to different keyframes causes the float in the Moho flow.
Two legs moving back and forth does not the Moho flow make.
The Moho flow is occuring because of the Moho bone structure in the character and the interpolation movement of the bones between keyframes. No bones, no Moho, No Moho flow.
Removing the bones in an animation in Moho defeats the purpose of using Moho.