Keyframe Cycling is different in version 6

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:22 pm

Just a heads up - in previous versions of AS, when you wanted to cycle something smoothly, for example in a switch layer, you'd have IMAGE 1, 2, 3 and 4 appear on the timeline at frames 1, 2, 3 and 4. Then, on frame 5, you'd put image 1 on again and cycle that back to frame 1 to get a smooth 4 frame cycle. 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...

NOW, if you do that in version 6, you'll get 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 1 etc...

So you'll get two frames of image 1 appearing next to each other.

Before, it seems as though AS ignored the cycle frame, that is, it didn't show it, it would just cycle back to the point the frame before.

Now, version 6 shows it. I don't know if I'm explaining this clearly, but to get a smooth 4 frame cycle, you'd go, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1 on frames 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, and then cycle frame 5 back to frame 2. Sounds complicated and I got used to AS 5.6's way of doing it, but hey.

This is for frame by frame by the way. Not sure how inbetweening is going to work with this new cycling method. Yikes.

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:02 pm

You are right, I was doing a cycle and have to make it start on frame two, just like you say, but I thought that all this time I was wrong and finally discovered the secret of cycles

I suppose that using images the change is more evident

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:26 pm

Ok, I went to take a look and this seems to be a bug. Try with this, create a switch and put 3 layers with a shape inside. one green, one blue and one red.
On first 3 frames create 3 switch keyframes on this order: red - green - blue
Cycle them to zero, you will obtain this from frame 4

red - green - red - red - green - blue - red - green - blue - red - green - blue - red - green - blue - red - green - blue - red - green - blue...
Do you see? at first frames you'll obtain a double red (and no blue), but after that the cycle becomes normal.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it's weird, I use cycles a lot and never noticed an error like this before.

PD: This work the same weird if you make the cycle to return on frame two (but you will obtain just two colors, not three)

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:09 pm

I think its a bug. I also noticed some strange behavior with the cycling. I'm posting your reply in the bug thread if you don't mind, Selgin. The previous way of cycling worked fine. Might have to use 5.6 for my next big project if this bug isn't fixed soon.

Still want to hear from Mike if it is a bug. It just seems a more fiddly way of cycling now in version 6.

Post by **Lost Marble** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:45 pm

There are actually two things going on here: a bug in version 5, and a bug in version 6. In version 6 I was trying to fix the v5 bug, and I kind of did, but introduced a new one. This cycling bug will be fixed in an upcoming update.

The way version 5 thought of cycling was conceptually incorrect. When you set up a cycling keyframe in the timeline, you see a little arrow point backwards to where you want to cycle from. Let's suppose the cycle keyframe is at frame 10, and it points back to frame 5. You would never actually see frame 5 appear again, even though the arrow points back to it and seems to indicate that it should appear again.

If you have Anime Studio 5.6 installed, take a look at the following file:

http://www.lostmarble.com/misc/SwitchCycling.anme.zip

Notice that as you advance frames, the number of each frame is displayed on the canvas. After frame 10, when the cycling starts, frame 6 is displayed next, even though the cycling arrow points back to 5. That is incorrect.

Now try opening the same file in Anime Studio 6. After frame 10, the next frame displays the number 5, as it should. Then 6, 7, 8, 9. But here's the bug in version 6: instead of displaying 10 again, it goes back to 5.

That's just for the first cycle. After cycling once, it gets things right and cycles forever thus:

5,6,7,8,9,10,5,6,7,8,9,10,5,6,7,8,9,10

So yes, there's a bug in v6, and there's also a bug in v5. Version 6 fixes the incorrect concept of cycling in version 5, but has a glitch in the first cycle. The update to version 6 will fix that glitch.

J. Baker · Post by **J. Baker** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:12 pm

Yeppers, that is definitly a bug in 5.6. There should have been a bug fix release before v6 came out.

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:13 pm

Doh!

Think I'd rather even side with 5.6's bug, at least I know how it works, but not sure I'd be able to tolerate the version 6's bug. That could cause some serious problems. I use switch layers a lot and the double layer display bug would drive me dilly. Is there no easy fix for this Mike? Some code I can copy and paste into something? That would be awesome. I downloaded the file and I see what you mean. Other option is for me to just render out the scene from a frame after everything's done one loop but I don't really wanna do any more workarounds. Please please please, a fix for this would be awesome.

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:33 am

Thanks for the explanation, Mike. With the fix and the new cycle mode this will be more intuitive.

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:52 am

I really don't want to sound dramatic here because I absolutely love all the other features in the new version, but this is a pretty crippling bug for me.

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:05 am

Ya. I thought it might not be such a bad problem, but after some quick tests I realize it is. If its an easy fix, that would be the best thing. For me, that is. Hmm...not so keen to wait for an update. Anybody know how this can be fixed? Scripts? Or changing something in the app thing?

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:03 am

Maybe it might be fixed with a script... uh... maybe a layer script. I haven't played with the layer time versus document time yet. I suppose there would be a way to "override" the cycle interpolation entirely and have it scripted... seems like overkill. Maybe you could have a global variable that would "do something" on the first loop... but... it's in a weird spot. It's AFTER the first loop but only that one time.

You could use a duplicate of the layer when it isn't repeating and turn it off and a repeating one on again using visibility. Or if the repeat starts at the beginning just slide it behind frame 0 in the sequencer so that first bad loop isn't seen. Not much else can be done with out a patch. There isn't anything that can be done to fix this from the users view point. Either workaround it with duplicate layers or wait for a "patch".

-vern

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:26 am

Hmm...I thought of the workarounds, and ya, if its in the beginning I could slide the layer through the sequencer, but its when I start adding cycles after I've already done a motion from frame 1. Man. This really upsets me. Its a little bug with big repercussions for work flow. Anyone know how to make a patch? I will be their fan forever.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:27 pm

Create a switch layer with "non cycle" and "cycled" duplicate layers. Cycle one layers animation and choose it from the switch. Choose the other one when the cycle stops.

Or use visibility to hide/show duplicate layers...

Or copy and paste the cycle keys...

-vern

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:55 pm

Ya, I can think of the workarounds. When it comes time to change the timing its more work and more fiddly than just using 5.6, so I think I'd rather just use 5.6 and wait for some kind soul to make a magic patch, or for a scripting genius to hook something awesome, or wait for a fix from Mike or just hope the next update is around the corner.

Also, this stuffs things up a bit when you open a 5.6 file with a lot of animation cycles in version 6. The cycles then show repeated frames every cycle.

Man. I'd really like to go back to the old way of cycling. Where you just copy the first keyframe to the end of the animation and loop it.

Post by **Lost Marble** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:25 pm

Mikdog wrote:Man. I'd really like to go back to the old way of cycling. Where you just copy the first keyframe to the end of the animation and loop it.

The problem is, not all uses of cycle keyframes involve loops. If your first keyframe is exactly the same as the last keyframe, then the bug in version 5 was kind of hidden. But if you're creating a cycling loop where the first keyframe is not the same as the last keyframe (although maybe not as common), it doesn't work right in version 5.

The fix is pretty easy, and it's done - I just need to figure out how/when we can get out an update. I've actually got a bunch of fixes I'd like to get out to you folks, and I'm trying to see if I can do something like frequent "informal" bug releases for the hard-core users, and less-frequent "official" updates.