My brother singing!

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heyvern
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My brother singing!

Post by heyvern » Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:29 am

Was bored today. Found an old project I started a while back. This uses one of my 2.5d rigs. It's an old version of the rig so the ears and eyes are "funky". Just playing around with a caricature of my brother singing one of his songs. I plan to put it in a proper rig eventually.

I only did part of the first verse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UU5A5bwLNA

Here's a link to the full song if you are interested:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=4781343

-vern
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toonertime
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feedback and front

Post by toonertime » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:45 am

really nice expression on this guy!
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uddhava
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question

Post by uddhava » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:14 pm

I enjoyed seeing your work on You Tube. Actually I looked at everything you had there and the facial expressions were very nice. I notice you mention using bone rigs for the faces. Do have a demonstration of how to create such a rig (for the face) somewhere on this forum? It would be a great help for me.

Thanks, Udd.

PS. Was that song your own creation?
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:49 pm

The song was written and performed by my brother Delmar Jay:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=4781343

Yes, somewhere on the forum is an early sample of the face rig. I am having trouble tracking it down. The version I posted didn't have all the bells and whistles but it worked.

What I have now is... well to be honest it's EXTREMELY complicated with over 200 bones... one of the reasons I gave up on it for a while. It was too slow to use on the Mac... like building a boat in your basement and you can't get it out of the house ;). Since then I got a much faster PC and it flies like the wind. Much more fun and very fast to use. It even plays in real time so lip syncing is a breeze.

I created that rig ages ago and barely remember most of how it was done :oops: but it still works great and I was able to stick a caricature I did of my brother into the rig. Basically what I was doing was using the same head or face and just moving the points around on frame 1 to make it look like a different character. The bones still move the points the same way AFTER frame 1 so I don't have to do much else to it. Maybe some point shifting on frame 0 to change the bone influence.

I did add hair on this version of the rig. First time I added hair to this rig. It worked out well. I figured out a way to have the back of the head with hair attached so the head is more "3D". It involved some bound points that stay in place that are attached to shapes that follow bones. This creates a shape that forms the back of the head as it turns. Worked out well I think. The ears were trouble till I created an "umbrella" type collapsable bone rig for the ears that "fold" and "unfold" as the head turns. The ears are always in front of the back head layer but behind the face layer. Like I said... very very complex.

Even with it being complex... it works now and I can reuse it over and over.

I will try to either track down the original simpler version or maybe fix this one up for those with FAST machines... or at least those not on a mac. It's very slow and difficult to work with even on fast macs for some reason.

Here's a new one I just finished rendering with the new better head rig installed. I finished the first verse and chorus after I transferred the layers to the new better rig. Luckily nothing changed much but some of the bones and adding in the back of the head shapes layer. I was able to save out and load in the animation from the original using my bone animation scripts so I didn't have to do the whole thing over from scratch. The animated bones had the same names so it loaded right in.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJWMz8FO_aA


-vern
Last edited by heyvern on Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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uddhava
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Post by uddhava » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:08 pm

Thank you.

I also starting looking for it and found out that you have over 4,000 posts! Ha ha. I started from the earliest post and I'm working my way forward, getting distracted by other posts that interest me. Don't they say you have to learn to love the process and not just the result? I think looking at your posts is a good way to learn how to use the software.

By the way is using many layers to create a character something you picked up from working in Illustrator for so many years? Would you recommend using and experimenting with a lot of layers when developing a character in ASP?

Thanks for your generosity on this forum. Udd.
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:43 pm

I have moved away from using so many layers. When I first started using "Moho" I was really into the all the complex shading and highlights and was trying to do this with tons of layers and layer blending effects, multiple bone layers of the same character for highlights and shadows, masking, with scripts for bone slaving... etc etc.

This got to the point where some of my characters were almost unusable to animate with. It bogged down the program, so I had to simplify. For instance the first version of this head rig had all kinds of blended soft edge effects, and gradients etc etc all on separate layers with bunches of masking blah blah blah. Now it is mostly just simple basic fill shapes.

I still use multiple layers but only when it's absolutely necessary, like ears or eyes or arms and legs. If several layers serve no other purpose I combine them into one layer. If however a layer has a lot of shapes and it's EASIER to manage split into multiple layers I will do that.

The whole thing was a learning process and, yes, I was influenced by years of illustration and 3D still image creation and not having to worry about limitations at all. Illustration is totally different from animation. TOTALLY different. When producing an illustrated still image you can do whatever you need no matter how long it takes to render or print. When you start to animate you must scale down or it takes forever. ;)

p.s. I am really excited about this new thing that came up in another topic. The "animated" lighting effect using a gradient in an extended shape fill. I want to try and see if I can use that with my head rig to get "interactive" moving highlights and shadows. Right now the shading is "drawn" and there is no way to change the direction. I could add in some extra "lighting" bones to control the direction of a light source.

This would simplify the layers even more. I would only need one fill for the shapes and move the hightlights around. See how it works.

-vern
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chucky
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Post by chucky » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:41 am

I like this characters rounded shapes and shading , Vern.
Can I ask why he doesn't blink?
I think a few well timed blinks and a few faster,snappier mouth interpolations would take this to a whole new level.
I'd like to see the whole clip. :wink:
Sequential offender.
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rolandinho
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Post by rolandinho » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:03 pm

hi,
the faces look really good... u should plan doing a longer project.

can u tell me what head rigging technic u used. i like that 3d look!
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uddhava
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Post by uddhava » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:53 pm

Hi Vern, yes I saw that post about the moving gradients and even played around with it a bit in ASP. That could be a good application for it, it will be interesting to hear from you about the results of your experimenting.
Right now I'm trying to create characters and having problems with the painting tools. They don't seem to work in a consistent way or (more likely) I am doing something wrong. Still I wish they were easier to use like in Illustrator. Too bad.

Udd.
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:23 pm

Sorry you are having trouble with the drawing tools. Keep practicing and you will get the hang of it. Make sure you get the custom tools from Fazek in the script forum (there is a sticky with all the good stuff like that in one post).

Fazek's drawing tools make ASP more like Illustrator... but not really... just the tools. ;)

I gave up on that moving gradient trick for my head characters, it was just way to complicated due to how many shapes there are. Instead I have new trick up my sleeve. I already have a custom layer script for those characters so I am going to add in code to change the color of the highlights and shadow shapes. right now I have the light coming from one side. I could link a bone to the shapes color and then moving the bone would gradually switch the values depending on the position/direction of the bone creating a shifting light source. It wouldn't be like "real" 3D lighting but it would do the job.

-vern
AMIN
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Ask about character!

Post by AMIN » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:28 am

hello dear heyvern...
i watched your work that's really great .....i have a quastion about time...how long does making character take?...is it simple to do this way of riging for project?...
this is a link of my character test...let me know what do u think about riging...
http://rapidshare.com/files/178402160/A ... B.zip.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/180612318/H ... .anme.html
thanx
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Galanx
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Post by Galanx » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:02 am

Hhahah pretty cool as always!
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:16 am

I looked at your file and can see you are headed in the right direction. I don't know what else to say except to make sure you have enough bones to control areas around the joints. I tend to avoid dynamic constraints. They get a bit too jumpy for me.

Once you come up with a good rig you can reuse it over and over saving time for new characters. That's what I try to do.

-------------

My head rig took a looooooong time to create from scratch. Now that I have it done it's much quicker to add new "faces". It might take a few hours or more depending on the type of face and how much different it is from the original bone set up. I've actually discovered things in the rig I didn't realize I put in! I found I can move the whole mouth up or down with one bone. Great for making small adjustments. I can also move the eyes up or or down or closer together. I do those adjustments on frame 1 and save as an action, start the animation on frame 2.

I can move points on vector layers on frame 1 the same way to tweak the look without changing how the bones effect the movement. By moving points on frame 1 they still move the same way in relation to the bones. I can almost create a whole new character this way.

I am in the process now of doing a female head character to add to my group. I worked on it for few hours and it's nearly done. It's taking a bit longer because I have to adjust the bones for a more feminine look. Some of the chin bones stick out too much so I am adjusting the constraints. Also the proportions of the character I'm doing are quite different. She has bigger eyes and mouth... more of an "anime" style. I am also adding to my custom layer script to scale the eyes on the X axis slightly as the head turns. The bigger eyes need this more so than the other heads I've done.

It's amazing what getting a fast computer does for inspiration. I could barely use this rig when I first created it, now I am really excited about it again.

-vern
AMIN
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thanx

Post by AMIN » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:50 pm

thanx vern
just read ur post (i sent u more question but when read the post i give my answer) thanx
AMIN
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