Kaiya Rig

[lwaxana]

Just for fun I bought Smith Micro's Kaiya rig and tried to make a vector version of it. Much more relaxing than worrying about a story! :P Although I might put together a few different shots to make a short scene.

[neeters_guy]

I did a version of Cartoon Solution's Abby for practice as well. I've purchased some nice characters on Content Paradise, but I almost always rerig them to my liking. All in all it's good practice; whenever I see a character design, I can almost see the rig in the mind.

Good work so far. For further experimentation, see if you can animate your modified Kaiya rig to one of the many 11 Second Club clips.

[EHEBrandon]

For the time I spent with anime studio it has always been better to do point animation by dragging each vector to its proper position for movement with no bones besides for simple and basic movements as head tilts etc... Since its always smoother when and works better when it comes to the anime style. I usually draw key frames then move my points to match each movement and it works great for this style. Either way was the character worth it over? It seems like you could draw or make something better by just drawing it by yourself. Well for me anyways. Either way its good. ^.^

[lwaxana]

Neeters--haha, it sounds like you have attained zen-master rigger status! Good idea to do some dialogue tests. It will give me a chance to add some expressions and see what happens.

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EHEBrandon--I agree, I generally use the same process you're describing. This is just a way to unwind between projects. I'm definitely not using the Kaiya rig, only the design, so I consider the cost more of a licensing fee. It's definitely worth it for me because I don't want to put effort into designing characters that I'm not going to use in my long term projects. It's mostly just fun to get some variety and play with different styles.

I'm also just fascinated by the idea of pre-made characters, though. Like what would they need to have in order to be really truly useful and fun for users. I think one of the biggest obstacles for using premade characters is how functional they are, but also finding them in the style you want with enough characters and backgrounds to create a consistent world. If you had all that, it could be so much fun!

[EHEBrandon]

Neeters--haha, it sounds like you have attained zen-master rigger status! Good idea to do some dialogue tests. It will give me a chance to add some expressions and see what happens.

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EHEBrandon--I agree, I generally use the same process you're describing. This is just a way to unwind between projects. I'm definitely not using the Kaiya rig, only the design, so I consider the cost more of a licensing fee. It's definitely worth it for me because I don't want to put effort into designing characters that I'm not going to use in my long term projects. It's mostly just fun to get some variety and play with different styles.

I'm also just fascinated by the idea of pre-made characters, though. Like what would they need to have in order to be really truly useful and fun for users. I think one of the biggest obstacles for using premade characters is how functional they are, but also finding them in the style you want with enough characters and backgrounds to create a consistent world. If you had all that, it could be so much fun!

I agree 100% Honestly when it comes to my animations, backgrounds, props, etc... I make and animate everything in Anime Studio Pro. Also I am glad I am not the only one using complex rigs with smart bones and such... To me smart bones and bones in general are good for a toon style or maybe even Disney. But when it comes to Japanese anime like I said above just moving the vectors manually basically a form of frame by frame is better for that style. Well its good for any style but its more needed when it comes to Japanese anime. I must say pre-made characters are fun.. I just enjoy creating things on my own mostly since I do have the time to draw characters, backgrounds, props, etc... When you do serious projects do you draw like keys on paper scan them then redraw everything in Anime Studio then move all the points to the key image for animation? Or do you usually use mostly complex rigs? Like I said I enjoy point dragging better. :p Also I think it would be awesome if pre-made files had smart bone options but also had perfect amount of vectors for the people who enjoy that better.

[drichird]

Thanks lwaxana and EHEBrandon for sharing your thoughts. Have been experimenting with ASP for short while now, I did try smart bones to fix joint pinching sut got frustrated because fixing pinch in one area sometimes just moved the problem to a different frame when I wanted all other frames to stay the same. And that's just for a side view run cycle for example. Then try to view character from different POV and all the rigging for that one angle has to be redone for a different angle, since no simple way to rotate 2D rig in 3D I don't think?

As a singe animator with limited time and resources, it seemed I have 3 choices. 1. Spend $$$$ to buy pre-rigged characters that can be modified (face/clothing/body), move well in 2D, and can be rotated in 3D (are there any?) 2. Spend the next few years, not working on any stories, just putting the front end work into developing a suite of characters that can have face/clothing changed, move well, and can be rotated using rigging. 3. Bite the bullet for painstaking frame by frame animation (at least for complex movements), which takes forever but at least I have absolute control over every frame.

Anyways good to hear ideas from others much farther down the knowledge path, thanks!

[lwaxana]

drichard, these are the questions I'm always struggling with, too. I like to think of character design and character rigging as totally separate processes. Whether you're animating frame by frame or with a rig, you'll always need some kind of model sheet or sketches so you know what the character looks like from different angles. I think it's best to have the character design (aspects that must be consistent from scene to scene) finalized before you start animating. I don't think it's necessary to pre-plan clothes they'll wear in later scenes before you animate an earlier scene. Having that character design already figured out (colors, what does it look like from different angles, etc) is why I bought the Kaiya character.

Unlike character design, rigging doesn't have to be consistent from scene to scene. I think there are advantages to using multiple rigs designed for specific applications. For instance, the singing girl character's mouth set up is excellent (this character predates blend morphs, smart bones, etc) http://contentparadise.com/productDetails.aspx?id=378. It is perfect for close up dialogue type shots. But if you wanted that same character in a different pose or to do a full body action scene, you'd probably want to create a separate rig for that or work frame by frame. I suspect that singing girl 2 was created to have a second pose of the same character: http://contentparadise.com/productDetails.aspx?id=377.

I think character simplicity and animation style are the determining factors in how all-encompassing your character rig can be. If your character won't be moving around much, changing angles etc, working with a pre-made rig can work really well. Or if your character has really clean simple shapes, I think you can accomplish a lot with a basic rig.

For more detailed characters shown from multiple angles with foreshortening and/or rotation, I wouldn't recommend postponing animation to create a super-rig first, mainly because it's difficult, (if not impossible), to anticipate what your scene will require of the character until you have your scene planned. That said, I'm still really interested in figuring out how pre-made rigs could be more useful. I know that I always prefer to have separate rigs for close up shots and full body shots because it keeps the line thickness looking more consistent from scene to scene and also shots should be framed to show what's important in a scene. If you have a character doing some really physical action with their body, you're probably going to show the whole body. If you are focused on what the character is thinking, you'll often want to be in a closer shot. So I think ultimately, the most useful pre-made character would be a set of related rigs designed for different situations.

So far, I don't think pre-made characters exist with all the functionality I would look for. That's one of the other reasons I wanted to experiment with the Kaiya character to get an idea of what the most important features would be. At least if you have a character design you like, you can continue to develop your set of rigs for that character by drawing it in new poses and rigging it as required.

[lwaxana]

EHEBrandon--Sorry, I didn't see your questions until now. I have a bit of a dilemma for the drawing ahead question. For semi-complex character designs and movements I do draw key frames and break downs ahead of time on paper (using a light box) or in toonboom animate. I'm most comfortable and get better results drawing on paper. The problem with paper is that I always want to see how it looks. So then I scan it in and view in AS. At that point, I seldom want to go back to paper to work additional frames, especially if I adjusted the drawing digitally, which I often do. But I think I need to start working even more of the animation on paper. Because if i use point animation I have a hard time keeping the volumes and arcs looking right. The main thing I want to get out of AS is "in betweening" (without it looking mechanical) and not having to ink every single frame in toonboom. I hate inking! It takes me a really long time to get nice looking lines with "tradigital" inking.

How much are you drawing ahead of time?

When you say the perfect amount of vector points, do you mean that you try to minimize the number of points and use things like curvature more? I haven't experimented much with animating the curvature. I wonder if I'm missing out...