Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

A place to discuss non-Moho software for use in animation. Video editors, audio editors, 3D modelers, etc.

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CHIO
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Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by CHIO » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:34 pm

I love and know MOHO since its first version in 2000. However I see how these guys (real illusion) continue to grow with great enthusiasm and creating a product that looks like a toy, but today combines many functions that MOHO could easily have incorporated.

See this link:

https://www.reallusion.com/cartoon-anim ... ation.html

What do you think?

greetings to all.

Chio
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by jahnocli » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:04 am

It's easy to sneer at software like this, but it obviously fills a need. I've got older versions of this software and its stablemate Crazy Talk, but I haven't used them in ages, and I still use Moho on a regular basis. I guess that tells you something. The trouble with these Reallusion products is, you have to get the Pipeline versions to get the most out of them, and that makes it ex-pen-sive. It's good that Moho has some competition at the lower end, but Crazy Animator is going to have to get a whole lot more versatile, and become a cheaper overall package than Moho, to get me interested again. I do like some of their ideas, though.
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by beemr » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:50 am

I find the plans for Cartoon Animator to be compelling, especially the character pallete.
None of it is beyond the capabilities of Moho, but whereas Moho's smart bones have the most flexibility and power, Cartoon Animator's skeleton proxy seems to conventionalize the bone interface and hide all of the painstaking manipulation. Maping bones between figures with varying proportions seems to be one of the most powerful results of their inventive UI.
Hopefully, Moho team is watching these developments. For all of Reallusions inventiveness, none of it is beyond the capabilities of Moho 12. And Moho''s rendering and camera tools are still king.
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by DK » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:59 am

The shape/head rotation has me excited I must say! It's all good to tidy up tools and workflow but real advances come from someone with vision. AS Smart bones were the last thing that really captured that.

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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by beemr » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:11 pm

2.5 D head turns have been around a long time and for a lot of different software. Cacani, Live 2D, CrazyTalk Animator 2, Anime Studio, even RPG Maker, have all exhibited techniques for this. But it has always been a fairly complex marriage of figure deconstruction and and rewiring. By packaging all of that into a singular abstraction, Reallusion opens up possibilities for scaling it beyond a single scene. That's where the drag and drop motions and mocap become possible.
So far, Reallusion has achieved this by lowering the creative expectations of their users. Cartoon Animator 4 looks to open up the creative possibilities of their conventions. My big question is how far have they been able to push the creative potential? They have shown a head turn that is actually not that impressive. The MoCap is a difference maker, though.
Moho has all of the pieces to make this possible already. In fact, if they so decide, their solution could be at once more elegant and more powerful.

I'll take those controls and output as a structured system vs. Cartoon Animator's results thus far:
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by ruscular3d » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:40 pm

Iphone facial mocap! That is where cartoon animator will jump in the lead!
I have been asking for multiple tracking for this reason so we can do facial tracking and realtime face expression and lip synching.
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by InfoCentral » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:22 pm

The upgrade prices seem reasonable.
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by DK » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:50 pm

I fully intend on purchasing CA4 as soon as it hits the market. It is being actively developed and the company actually seem to love their product. This animation software market is only getting more competitive with Brash Monkey's "Spriter 2" due for release as well sometime this year. (Teaser trailer below).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6OJGNsgJ7o

CA4 also seem to have their own Content Market place and a very active animation community who are actually producing some very nice stuff with the products. Kinda reminds me of this place 10 or so years ago.

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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by ruscular3d » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:04 am

Hey DK, that does remind me of the artist that was coming out with very cool background set for animation, rooms of the house, restaurant, airplane seats. For the memory I forgot who he was, but yeah we are missing that! It was very much like south park style of drawings.
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by DK » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:22 am

Ahhhh...for the old days :roll:
It's just exiting to see a new 2D animation tool being developed that promises so much. Not sure what to expect from CA4 as far as toolsets go, output formats, composition capability etc but it should be worth a looksee and report back.

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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by mrc » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:19 am

I tried to convince my colleagues at the office to switch from After Effects to Moho for character animation but the interface felt too technical for them (and the import process from Illustrator in AE is just too convenient).

Found out about Cartoon Animator / Crazytalk Animator (CTA) in this thread and from the looks of it it seems closer to what we need for streamlined production where the same set of animations has to be applied to a lot of different characters. The library and drag-and-drop interface is very convincing and much more intuitive than Moho's actions for reusing animations. Also, as long as you stick to their standard templates, getting a human character rigged consist of dragging the PSD file onte the stage in CTA.

I downloaded the trial version of CTA3 and it became apparent to me that I would rather stick with Moho for now (much more flexible, better timeline, keyframe management, bezier motion curves, compositing etc.) but I can see the appeal and am looking forward to what Cartoon Animator 4 will bring to he table.

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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by InfoCentral » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:48 am

DK wrote: CA4 also seem to have their own Content Market place and a very active animation community who are actually producing some very nice stuff with the products. Kinda reminds me of this place 10 or so years ago.
I see Kelleytoons is active over there on the forums too.
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by DK » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:11 am

I just joined their Beta group but haven't met up with any Mohers yet :)
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by chucky » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:28 pm

First a huge sigh, next comes the 'Rant'. :twisted:
I just hope this doesn't sound like I am abandoning any of my love for Moho by saying this.

The tech these guys are developing quickly and enthusiastically is exactly what I ( and a few others) have been lobbying for in Moho for years.
Modular rigs and performance driven animation operated with bespoke UI elements.
Countless requests reports and UI/UX examples with mockups videos, even emails and conference.
I've been going blue in the face with frustration while trying to remain positive and encouraging but it seems Moho's parent company just does not want to support the kind of development that will give it the edge in the market by leading in this field, even though it is so well placed and has broken a lot of ground that has clearly inspired this huge push and effective rebranding displayed in CA4.
I feel like even from others in the community these suggestions were responded to with the attitude of 'Yeah but we don't really need to'.

I disagree, it's very much needed and now it seems the chickens are coming home.
Why are we watching these guys overtake Moho in an area that it should totally pwn?
I love Moho and it has been my animation main axe for years, I want it to remain that and for more and more users.
These guys have gone from zero to hero with this WIP 2 video and is looking very much like a serious and appealing option for many animators, not just noodlers.
SM bosses should take note and put the pedal to the metal.
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CHIO
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Re: Cartoon Animator 4 (CT4)

Post by CHIO » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:20 pm

Hi,
I agree with many of your opinions. I was very sorry when SM disarmed the entire development team led by Mike, Victor, Fahim and the great enthusiasm of a group of animators that encouraged the great majority of the developments and growth of MOHO. I believe that the potential of MOHO and the versatility are still very good, but the neighbors continue to work in the shade and SM has decided to let MOHO die? Someone knows more about it. I do not want to give up MOHO.
Cheers,
Chio
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