Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby herbert123 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:10 pm

uncle808us wrote:I use CSP EX and I have a lot of different graphic apps vector and raster. Clip Studio Paint is the only one that gives me the feeling of artistry.
It is very comfortable. I hope for better animation a way to not have to copy paste so many frames.
Example: Draw one object and be able to use it with changes ( transform,rotate, etc.) in all frames.
Drawing and fills for vector work.


That's where OpenToonz teams up quite nicely with CSP EX. Draw in CSP, export to OpenToonz. Convert bitmap strokes to true vector strokes with variable thickness. Use the vector fill tools. Use the animation tools to transform and rotate elements. Animate with fun.

CSP EX is great, but the animation part leaves somewhat to be desired - which is why they added native OpenToonz export for Japanese animation studios. Best of both worlds, because drawing directly in OpenToonz is just not that nice. Not bad, but not on CSP EX levels.
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby InfoCentral » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:32 pm

herbert123 wrote:CSP EX is great, but the animation part leaves somewhat to be desired - which is why they added native OpenToonz export for Japanese animation studios. Best of both worlds, because drawing directly in OpenToonz is just not that nice. Not bad, but not on CSP EX levels.

Is the exporter included in the English version too?
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby uncle808us » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:40 pm

Yes it is in the English Clip EX but as to Open toonz , how it works is a mystery.
I could not get any BG images only black and white of the animated objects from Clip Studio,
How Open Toonz works is a mystery to me it might as well be Blender.
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby DarthFurby » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:13 pm

uncle808us wrote:How Open Toonz works is a mystery to me it might as well be Blender.


There are lots of really great youtube tutorials that demystify Blender.

Clip Studio has been awesome tho! Today's sketch, Space Ghost!
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby uncle808us » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:19 pm

The amount of Blender Tutorials is overwhelming! And they still don't simplify the Layout.
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby chucky » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:44 pm

Yeah Blender is a mind bender, Maya is so much easier to use.
Stupid left click right click snappy duplicating windows everywhere, what a mess.
Blender is like one of those books or movies you just can't finish ( not that I start that many books :roll: :wink: which may be my problem).
I have played with it, but even after modifying the UI and commands as close to standard as I can, I still rage quit after a few days.

Hey Darth love the Clip work 8)
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby exile » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:57 pm

chucky wrote:Yeah Blender is a mind bender, Maya is so much easier to use.
Stupid left click right click snappy duplicating windows everywhere, what a mess.
Blender is like one of those books or movies you just can't finish ( not that I start that many books :roll: :wink: which may be my problem).
I have played with it, but even after modifying the UI and commands as close to standard as I can, I still rage quit after a few days.

Hey Darth love the Clip work 8)


I*ve had similar experiences, without having tried Maya. However, Darth's tutorial on posing 2D art in a 3D environment made me plunge into Blender again. A guy who calls himself surfaced studio posted three introductory tutorials with a box modeling project which I was able to complete https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5luANNKuEc. Another series for beginners by VskorpianC features both 3D and 2D (Grease Pencil) stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6dPvOXL9kc&index=1&list=PLP3-5QSIC-VfO_CRu5Q9Wa3o_Wv6opUs0. Maybe our forum friend Greg Smith will continue with his promising tuts?

I'm experimenting: If if's possible to learn Blender at my age, then there's really no problem beyond superficial differences to other software. It's not easy, but neither is Moho when you go beyond the initial stages and actually want to do a complete project. The illusion of there being some easy way to animate might be the reason why so many of us abandon our projects when we hit snags.
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby chucky » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:53 pm

Yeah I did get pretty far into Blender I made a full character with textures and even messed around with natural media renders . The problem is that it is so 'contrary' in its operation after a break where I was just concentrating on work , l went back to Blender only to find my initiative methods of working with other software was so different that l could not easily remember or readapt to Blender's 'arse about face' way of doing things , tutorials or not . l've had a few cracks at Blender but until it plays ball and becomes more accessible , I'll just not use it .
l actually find it ironic that something 'open source' is so antisocial in its design.
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby Greenlaw » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:28 am

I'm the same way with ZBrush. The UI has always been a somewhat 'non-standard' so if I'm not using it regularly, I completely forget how to use it and I have to spend a few hours re-learning it again. When I'm in a crunch, I usually fall back on 3D Coat because it's a bit more 'Photoshop-like' so it stays more familiar.
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby herbert123 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:09 am

uncle808us wrote:Yes it is in the English Clip EX but as to Open toonz , how it works is a mystery.
I could not get any BG images only black and white of the animated objects from Clip Studio,
How Open Toonz works is a mystery to me it might as well be Blender.


OpenToonz is simple once you understand the concept of how it uses levels and scenes, and how OT handles files for scene/production management. Don't attempt to compare it with either Flash or Moho in that regard. If you need a more traditional horizontal timeline, click on the "Xsheet" button in the Xsheet panel.

Or download the the latest Experimental version, which is taught to school kids by the maintainer - it defaults to a horizontal timeline.
https://gumroad.com/l/TZmmM

If elementary school kids have no issues learning to use and have fun with OT to make animations, I'd say it isn't as hard as you think it is.
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby exile » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:37 am

Anything unaccustomed is awkward to use. I never understood why an up-down timeline as opposed to horizontal is a big deal and took such a high priority in OT development. The advances in the painting tools are IMO more substantial, but for some reason I don't get good response with my tablets on either computer. Not even a smiley represents the strokes properly. The much-maligned freehand tool in Moho, Blender's brushes and of course Clip Paint or Inkscape all respond normally - if the strokes look terrible, it's because of me and not the rendering engine. To use a program only to assemble an animation you can't tweak after importing is not appealing. Maybe I'll try again with the next computer in 202_.
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby chucky » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:56 am

l don't quite agree ,
Many programs are easy to fall into .Some things are more obvious than others .
For example piano seems obvious, but what's with the accordion? What are all those LITTLE buttons for? l 've had that explained , I've nodded and understood , but now, l couldn't tell you.

Similarly Maya, Clip paint, Paintstorm, Sculptris, Toon Boom , Space Invaders , they all seem fairly obvious . Sketchup , totem tennis, hamburgers, Marvel movies . . . .Simple.

On the other hand there's backgammon, quantum physics, Inception, fondue . . . . Blender....forget about it.
OK maybe not Inception....makes perfect sense with the correct medication :wink:
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby uncle808us » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:21 pm

exile wrote:Anything unaccustomed is awkward to use. I never understood why an up-down timeline as opposed to horizontal is a big deal and took such a high priority in OT development. The advances in the painting tools are IMO more substantial, but for some reason I don't get good response with my tablets on either computer. Not even a smiley represents the strokes properly. The much-maligned freehand tool in Moho, Blender's brushes and of course Clip Paint or Inkscape all respond normally - if the strokes look terrible, it's because of me and not the rendering engine. To use a program only to assemble an animation you can't tweak after importing is not appealing. Maybe I'll try again with the next computer in 202_.

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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby uncle808us » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:23 pm

This was done with Poser Pro Game Dev 10.0.5.30556 and Clip Studio Paint EX Ver.1.7.3
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Re: Clip Studio, dropping Smith Micro?

Postby herbert123 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:31 pm

chucky wrote:l don't quite agree ,
Many programs are easy to fall into .Some things are more obvious than others .
For example piano seems obvious, but what's with the accordion? What are all those LITTLE buttons for? l 've had that explained , I've nodded and understood , but now, l couldn't tell you.

Similarly Maya, Clip paint, Paintstorm, Sculptris, Toon Boom , Space Invaders , they all seem fairly obvious . Sketchup , totem tennis, hamburgers, Marvel movies . . . .Simple.

On the other hand there's backgammon, quantum physics, Inception, fondue . . . . Blender....forget about it.
OK maybe not Inception....makes perfect sense with the correct medication :wink:


Well, in the end it's the user's mental model that tries to make sense of the external world.

For example, I used just about every 2d animation app since Amiga times, but the (only) one that gets me kicking and screaming in frustration is Toonboom. I hate working in it, it feels awkward, and just not my cup of tea. So our experiences and mental models must be quite different in this respect.

I worked with 3d apps since Videoscape was introduced on the Amiga, and worked with (and still work with) many (Max, Lightwave, C4d, Blender, Softimage, Sketchup, XSI, Houdini, and older applications which no longer exist. I had no real issues adjusting to Blender 2.49 (yes, PRE-2.5 GUI change) myself. Maya, however? I just don't like Maya. It's clunky - in my opinion.

We all possess different experiences and mental models - so we are lucky to have so many different options to do animation, and accommodate our workflow and experience.
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