Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby AmigaMan » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:54 pm

It is NOT the software that determines whether your characters/animation will be of a quality that can be enjoyed by others but your talent and ability. Toon Boom and Anime Studio are totally different pieces of software. I've used both and I would choose Anime Studio (almost) every time. If I was going to produce something that required completely hand drawn frame by frame animation I would likely use software such as Toon Boom. However, you can usually (and it's easier than ever now with Smart Bones etc) get a very similar look with a fraction of the work in Anime Studio. The drawing tools of AS are discussed over and over and over on this forum and they are excellent drawing tools for what they need to do. You are not limited by them at all because, firstly, AS is NOT frame by frame animation software so you are not hand drawing every frame. Secondly, if you so wish you can use any software you desire to draw your characters so how is that limiting? Some other excellent animation software (the UK standard for TV animation CelAction for instance) has no drawing features at all and you are required to create the artwork for your characters externally.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby o0Ampy0o » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:01 pm

AmigaMan wrote:It is NOT the software that determines whether your characters/animation will be of a quality that can be enjoyed by others but your talent and ability. Toon Boom and Anime Studio are totally different pieces of software.

If a tool by its design cannot achieve a desired result no amount of talent and skill will make the tool something it is not and the chances of squeezing out a product that a tool's design arguably works against is slim.

Sure talent and skill are important and on a level playing field those with talent and skill will outshine those with less but you will build a far better (more sophisticated) house skillfully using an array of well-designed tools suited for the task than using a simple hammer and saw and ironically it will also take less time.

Unless your goal is to attempt to create something great deliberately using handicapped tools, like the filmmakers using iPhone cameras to make Hollywood caliber movies, why would anyone choose something that limits there ability?

You could if you had limited needs or goals. If you need more capability than the easy tools offer you have to learn to use more capable and usually more complicated tools. Developing skill with those tools is likely to be more difficult.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby synthsin75 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:58 pm

o0Ampy0o wrote:
AmigaMan wrote:It is NOT the software that determines whether your characters/animation will be of a quality that can be enjoyed by others but your talent and ability. Toon Boom and Anime Studio are totally different pieces of software.

If a tool by its design cannot achieve a desired result no amount of talent and skill will make the tool something it is not and the chances of squeezing out a product that a tool's design arguably works against is slim.

Sure talent and skill are important and on a level playing field those with talent and skill will outshine those with less but you will build a far better (more sophisticated) house skillfully using an array of well-designed tools suited for the task than using a simple hammer and saw and ironically it will also take less time.

Unless your goal is to attempt to create something great deliberately using handicapped tools, like the filmmakers using iPhone cameras to make Hollywood caliber movies, why would anyone choose something that limits there ability?

You could if you had limited needs or goals. If you need more capability than the easy tools offer you have to learn to use more capable and usually more complicated tools. Developing skill with those tools is likely to be more difficult.


You sound like a shill for TB. Both first and second posts on an Anime Studio forum basically advertising its competitor. Your opinion is bs as well. There are ample examples out there is work done in AS comparable to anything accomplished in other software. AmigaMan is right, the tools hardly matter when the talent and dedication are there. That YOU feel that one tool may be hobbling is more likely a result of you being limited to a specific method of working.

It is pretty clear that you do not know what you are talking about, so quit the sales spiel. If you want to do it, as you say, the "more difficult" way, have at it. But don't expect to win over people who use a software that is actually FUN to use. If you're not a TB shill, maybe you'll stick around long enough to, I don't know, actually learn the "easier" software.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby AmigaMan » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:39 pm

I must admit, when I saw your original post was your very first on this forum I assumed, as did Synthsin75, that you must be some sort of promoter for Toon Boom. I would guess that you've never used Anime Studio. I have used TB on the other hand. I once did a training course on using TB and, having already been a user of AS, I couldn't believe TB was more or less the industry standard. The other animators and I much preferred Anime Studio and CelAction that we also trained up on.

"Well designed tools designed for the task" What are you on about? I already said right away that if you are going to be doing nothing but frame by frame animation then TB is probably for you. What feature is it that TB has that you determine is so superior that you can't possibly do without it in Anime Studio so much as to hinder your creativity?

I would question why you don't just get on and use TB. Why do you feel the need to come here and tell us all that you intend to use TB? I've not once felt the urge to go on the TB Forum telling of my intention to use AS. Having tried lots of animation software I know which software is better, for me, and I just use that. I will defend AS fully when I see posts from people who don't appear to know what they are talking about however.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby o0Ampy0o » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:54 pm

AmigaMan wrote:...Why do you feel the need to come here and tell us all that you intend to use TB? I've not once felt the urge to go on the TB Forum telling of my intention to use AS. Having tried lots of animation software I know which software is better, for me, and I just use that. I will defend AS fully when I see posts from people who don't appear to know what they are talking about however.

Why are you getting hostile over this? Did you read the thread title? There is your answer.

I said I was doing research and found this thread. I felt like adding a different perspective on the discussion.

You on the other hand are making it an anti AS motive. Stop projecting your thoughts onto my words. You don't and could not know anything about me.

Apparently you cannot tolerate anyone saying something that does not fully support the software you prefer. You don't have to participate here. You are not the spokesperson of AS are you?
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby AmigaMan » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:05 pm

I agreed with you that there are some things that TB does better such as frame by frame as AS is not designed for that. You must admit it's very odd that someone's very first post here would be basically saying that TB is superior. Have you used AS? I asked you what feature that TB has that causes you to keep stating it is superior. You haven't answered. I just wanted to know as it may be that AS actually has that feature also. No I don't know anything about you, which is why I was asking a few questions. I'm not the spokesperson for AS as you well know. I stated that I will defend it when I feel it is being maligned by someone that has probably never used it.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby o0Ampy0o » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:21 pm

synthsin75 wrote:It is pretty clear that you do not know what you are talking about

Actually I described what I am doing here and what I am researching. I have not claimed to know more than I spoke of. I am free to express my opinion of what I have observed thus far whether you agree with it or not. Why must you use ad hominem to discredit my point of view?
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby o0Ampy0o » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:23 pm

AmigaMan wrote:You must admit it's very odd that someone's very first post here would be basically saying that TB is superior. Have you used AS? I asked you what feature that TB has that causes you to keep stating it is superior.

No I don't see that at all as I explained why I was drawn to the thread. The title hit upon where I was in my searching at the time. I only spoke of TB in my first post not any subsequent posts in this thread thus far so you are incorrect in that statement saying I "keep stating it is superior."
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby synthsin75 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:05 pm

I'm done feeding this troll. If he were actually interested in "researching" available software, he'd come here asking questions instead of claiming something else is better (without any real experience). He will likely post here only as long as he can keep defending competing software or otherwise raising a fuss.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby o0Ampy0o » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:17 pm

synthsin75 wrote:I'm done feeding this troll. If he were actually interested in "researching" available software, he'd come here asking questions instead of claiming something else is better (without any real experience). He will likely post here only as long as he can keep defending competing software or otherwise raising a fuss.

Ad hominen and now you are labeling me a troll and defining how I should act to suit your point of view.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby Greenlaw » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:44 am

o0Ampy0o wrote:If a tool by its design cannot achieve a desired result no amount of talent and skill will make the tool something it is not and the chances of squeezing out a product that a tool's design arguably works against is slim.


While I don't necessarily disagree with this statement, I also feel there's a tendency in the industry to attribute too much credit to software and technology.

At the core of any truly successful production is a compelling story with strong cohesive designs, and the tools used to tell that story (software or otherwise) should always be secondary. A clever and skillful artist is able to adapt his ideas and designs to fit the resources he has available. If the artist is truly driven to tell his story, it will be told one way or another.

Without a good story to support it, animation is just 'eye candy' regardless of the technique or software you use. And if you have a good story to tell, you don't even need the pictures.

Just sayin'. :)

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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby o0Ampy0o » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:29 am

Greenlaw,

Your post brought to mind Pixar. Even their early test animations showed wonderful storytelling and sensitivity to emotions and character. I don't think the truly earliest test sequences have been seen widely but the initial shorts still hold up and surpass much of what is posited as competition from current technology and its users. I believe Pixar has continually worked at improving their proprietary tools advancing towards a very high standard.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby JetT » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:46 pm

At the place where I'm teaching now they had TB Animate installed - 800.- €, and it didn't even started up (was a permissions thing, it only works in admin mode). I convinced them to buy an AS licence and a TVPAint licence, that's 150.- and 250.- € - and guess what the students like better now.


You quoted the full retail price for TB Animate but quoted the educational discount price for TVPaint, that's a bit unfair slowtiger. Not sure where the school you teach at is located, but the one I went to used TB Harmony because they considered it the industry standard, they also at least knew how to use a computer.

Sure talent and skill are important and on a level playing field those with talent and skill will outshine those with less but you will build a far better (more sophisticated) house skillfully using an array of well-designed tools suited for the task than using a simple hammer and saw and ironically it will also take less time.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. If that is the case why are you complaining? AS is fundamentally not for FBF as misleading as the software name might be. It is for cutout animation only and it does that very well. For AS users they realise they can't make Attack on Titan, Adventure Time or Spirited Away but know they can make Atomic Betty, The Modifyers, Shuriken School and other Flash based cartoons because that is what they're interested in doing. There is no need for AS to be an all-encompassing software as it will just drive up the price and shrink the community.

Use it for what it is and don't demand from it what it isn't.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby synthsin75 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:30 pm

JetT wrote:
At the place where I'm teaching now they had TB Animate installed - 800.- €, and it didn't even started up (was a permissions thing, it only works in admin mode). I convinced them to buy an AS licence and a TVPAint licence, that's 150.- and 250.- € - and guess what the students like better now.


You quoted the full retail price for TB Animate but quoted the educational discount price for TVPaint, that's a bit unfair slowtiger. Not sure where the school you teach at is located, but the one I went to used TB Harmony because they considered it the industry standard, they also at least knew how to use a computer.

Sure talent and skill are important and on a level playing field those with talent and skill will outshine those with less but you will build a far better (more sophisticated) house skillfully using an array of well-designed tools suited for the task than using a simple hammer and saw and ironically it will also take less time.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. If that is the case why are you complaining? AS is fundamentally not for FBF as misleading as the software name might be. It is for cutout animation only and it does that very well. For AS users they realise they can't make Attack on Titan, Adventure Time or Spirited Away but know they can make Atomic Betty, The Modifyers, Shuriken School and other Flash based cartoons because that is what they're interested in doing. There is no need for AS to be an all-encompassing software as it will just drive up the price and shrink the community.

Use it for what it is and don't demand from it what it isn't.


Seems to be yet another TB shill (again, first post). Or is it just the same one? I'd suggest checking IPs. If you think AS can only do cutout animation then you have not seen the work of Aogo and Amira Mostafa on this forum.

Aogo:

Amira Mostafa:


If you're going to try to pigeonhole AS, try learning enough to actually have some clue of what you are talking about.
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Re: Why would anyone choose to use Animate Pro?

Postby o0Ampy0o » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:31 pm

synthsin75 wrote:...Seems to be yet another TB shill (again, first post). Or is it just the same one? I'd suggest checking IPs...

BEWARE of radical religious fanatic tactics.

The hateful tone, bullying people, casting labels onto them and lumping everyone into a conspiracy who does not praise his chosen with sufficient fervor is a desperate attempt to discredit those who do not agree with his point of view.

This synthsin75 is truly mad about a piece of software.
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