As Pro 8 vs Toon Boom AP 2

A place to discuss non-Moho software for use in animation. Video editors, audio editors, 3D modelers, etc.

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GCharb
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Post by GCharb » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:18 pm

Manu wrote:I have to admit that I can't really get a grip on the sprawling Toon Boom family. The Harmony page is full of corporate language, but I struggle to see what it actually does. Is there a demo or are there any online tutorials that can give me a feel for it?
No demo that I know of, which is why I asked Lilly about one, and not even a manual or video tutorials.

My guess is that they want to keep harmony a corporate tool, so studios buy it, then they pay for onsite learning, which I am sure is a big profit for Toonboom!
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Manu
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Post by Manu » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:33 pm

GCharb wrote:My guess is that they want to keep harmony a corporate tool, so studios buy it, then they pay for onsite learning, which I am sure is a big profit for Toonboom!
Mmm, I'm surprised that sort of brick-walled business model still works in 2011. But then, I'm not a business person.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:35 pm

They are very opened about their other software. You can get demos, video tutorials, documentation etc on all their lines, but harmony, which is squarely aimed at corporate business.
LillyTB
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Post by LillyTB » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:23 pm

Do you need to own a 3D package to use all of Harmony's features?
You need to have a 3D package to create the model in. You do not need to have a 3D package on the computer in order to manipulate the object once it has been imported into Harmony. You an animate in a file, you can animate the 3D object However you do once again need to have a rendering application on the computer to render with once it comes time to render. So we can work through Maya, 3delight, and Pixie for Renderman.

This means that you can take advantage of setting up your complex lighting and shading in your 3D file, and we will make use of that information when it comes time to do the rendering. It's a very powerful model for creating seamless 2D-3D integration.

So the Studio bones are the same as Anime Studio, can you explain if and how the other Harmony deformer features you mention are better than Anime Studio's system?
I can't say for sure what Anime Studio bones will do, but just to explain a little bit better what curve deformers do. Curve deformers are defined not by articulations with bones between them (i.e. defined by a rotation) but instead defined by a curve with bezier handles on control points. This is much more useful for dealing with scenarios like, say, a cat wagging its tail. Or a body that's bending.
So that's a discount on the $3500 price mentioned earlier in the thread? Is a 60% discount possible like you have on Animate Pro sometimes? What's the upgrade cost from Animate Pro?
I never mentioned a price of $3500. I can't confirm or deny that price - I'm afraid that the only place that you can get more info about pricing is from sales@toonboom.com. I can say, however, that whatever the price is, the sales team is always willing to set up payment plans and the such for those who have difficulty with the price. Sometimes they also bundle in some standalone licenses for freelancers in with studio deals, so sometimes the studio itself will provide a license of Harmony for the project. It depends on the studio.
Are there other TB forums on the net where users hang out? I don't mean to be funny, but compared to this place, the TB forums are a bit quiet.
I can only maintain the Toon Boom user forums on our website. I try to poke around in other threads when people let me know about them, but I only keep a close eye on http://www.toonboom.com/support/forums/animate/

I'll have to take a closer look at point animation. From your description it sounds like something I could do with deformation, so for example if I need to animate the hair, I can put a few deformers on the hair and wiggle the hair around. Or if I need to make the skirt bounce, I can put a deformer on the skirt and bounce it.

Regarding whether any of these features are coming to Animate Pro, the answer is that we haven't decided which ones, if any, will make it into that product. We have to factor in the cost of development when we decide at what price to sell a product. If any of these features do make it into Animate Pro, they will be a scaled-down version.

About a demo, there's a demo video of the new features available on the Harmony website. You can see it playing in the TV at the top of:
http://beta.toonboom.com/professionals/harmony/features

Also, on the Toon Boom YouTube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ToonBoomAni ... ZkhDtyfFEo

If you want a one-on-one demo, feel free to contact sales@toonboom.com and they'll be happy to set up a remote demo with one of our demo artists.

~Lilly
JaMike
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Post by JaMike » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:05 pm

LillyTB wrote:I never mentioned a price of $3500. I can't confirm or deny that price - I'm afraid that the only place that you can get more info about pricing is from sales@toonboom.com.
Uh oh - that normally means it's more expensive when people say that... :lol:

And you need Maya as well if you want to render out the 3D? I've only got two kidneys...
LillyTB wrote:Regarding whether any of these features are coming to Animate Pro, the answer is that we haven't decided which ones, if any, will make it into that product.
I know at least one person (my flatmate) who'll be really angry if Harmony drifts away from Animate Pro - he bought Animate Pro originally so he could get freelance jobs at studios that use Harmony. I think that's how it was sold to him, actually.

But anyway, thanks for the clarification Lilly, it's good to hear some straight talking about Toon Boom for a change, rather than the corporate speak.
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Post by Mikdog » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:36 pm

Hi man.

Haven't been following too closely, but:

Here's something I recently did all in TB Animate 2 (storyboarded in TB Studio Pro):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LxsNMxIdBA

Here's stuff I drew and animated in Anime Studio Pro:

http://www.happyland.co.za

And on my site you can see the Goldfish videos I drew in Photoshop CS4 and animated in Anime Studio Pro:

http://www.mikescottanimation.com/work

May help you see the different kind of looks perhaps?
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Post by JaMike » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:16 pm

The truth about Animate Pro 3 and Harmony stand-alone revealed - and the news isn't good for Animate Pro users!

Plus, Gilles was right about the $3500 price point.

http://www.toonboom.com/support/forums/ ... eadid=3275
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Post by GCharb » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:48 pm

To think ASP users aren't happy with 129 upgrades! :)

To be honest, I do not see why someone would buy TBAP unless they plan to do FBF animation, and even then, I am beginning to think ASP is even better at that to some point!
benecosse
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Post by benecosse » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:51 am

Toon Boom Harmony 'Standalone version' coming
Last edited by benecosse on Thu May 05, 2016 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:40 pm

Yes, Harmony 9 looks great, but Animate Pro 3 was also announced!
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Post by benecosse » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:59 pm

I can't find anything about it?
Last edited by benecosse on Thu May 05, 2016 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:12 pm

Saw a presentation in Montreal some time ago, also some information on Toonboom forum and some videos online!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amVOnHkaCLs#t=7m00s
JaMike
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Post by JaMike » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:27 pm

GCharb wrote:Saw a presentation in Montreal some time ago, also some information on Toonboom forum and some videos online!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amVOnHkaCLs#t=7m00s
That video has been taken down - what was it? And why take it down?
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Post by GCharb » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:01 pm

That video was from toonboom youtube channel, someone must get nervous over there because I watched it couples of hours ago and now it is gone.

http://www.toonboom.com/support/forums/ ... 75&start=0

Check this thread, many TBAP users are getting nervous, wonder why, it is only 2000$ :)
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Post by JaMike » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:50 pm

GCharb wrote:That video was from toonboom youtube channel, someone must get nervous over there because I watched it couples of hours ago and now it is gone.
I remember that video now, I saw it when I first saw that thread. It's the smoking gun. It really looks as if they got caught out in a lie.
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