2D character design software?

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joe52
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2D character design software?

Post by joe52 »

Is there software for character design similar to 2d parametric drafting software for 6 view orthographic projection- front, back, left, right, top, and bottom, with an optional axonometric view; that keeps all views aligned; and if a change is being made in one of the views, the other views that are effected by the change are updated?
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Imago
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Post by Imago »

:shock:
I can't understand what you mean...
You can't simply use a Photoshop-like software?
Sorry for my bad english... Q_Q
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Those are usualy 3D, never heard of a 2d one!

G
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Imago
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Post by Imago »

I was curious, so made a quick research.
I've found this:
http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cad.htm
It's a list of CAD software that seem capable to do what you want.
I hope it can be useful.
Sorry for my bad english... Q_Q
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Imago wrote:It's a list of CAD software that seem capable to do what you want.
No offense but I think he is more looking into something like these :)

Evolver, avatar maker
Icab, avatar maker

CAD software are usually tools to make buildings, cars or equipments plans, like Autocad.

G
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Imago
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Post by Imago »

No problem, G! :D
I've simply made a search about 2d parametric drafting softwares.
The listed software description suggested me it can be what Joe52 was looking for.
Sorry for my bad english... Q_Q
joe52
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Post by joe52 »

Sorry about the confusion, I'm trying to find software that would help save some time in 2D character design for drawing the views in a character turnaround, by projecting an edge drawn in one view as a series of points in the other views. I was trying to find something along the line of a sketch or freehand based 2D cad for drawing organics rather than inorganics.

I wanted to do the character design digitally instead of drawing the views with projections on paper, to get the views consistent before getting the pencils finished in Xara before importing in AS. I hate to think of what T-squares cost now, and if Post is still in business.

The ones that aren't familiar with orthographic projections, a 6 view American layout for tech drawings is like below:


....................back

....................top
......................................................3/4 front
left side.........front.........right side

....................bottom


The simplest example I could find on the web uses a European layout.

Image

I realized they don't even teach this anymore and was probably the reason for the confusion. Even though the above is a tech drawing, the part involving projections applies to any type of drawing.

Each of the views had both horizontal and vertical projection lines. The front view had guide lines at 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees so that when the projection lines intersected these guide lines they projected perpendicular (so the top and bottom views would have the same depth as the left and right sides), each view effected the rest of the views. If you look at it for a few minutes you'll see it.

Each of the views were projected at a certain angle, to get points to draw the axonometric view from.
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DK
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Post by DK »

joe52.

I totally agree! This is how I would design a 2D animation tool. I just don't understand why it hasn't been considered it yet! They can do it with 3D!

Cheers
D.K
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lwaxana
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Post by lwaxana »

Interesting thought. If you just want to project points from one view to another, you could implement a traditional drafting/analytical drawing approach on paper or in your drawing program of choice. (It would work in Anime Studio.) Just manually place your projection lines as construction lines on a separate layer (or use the appropriate coordinates). That's a typical drafting work flow anyway.

There used to be a great example on http://www.polykarbon.com which was (IMO) incorrectly labeled as a foreshortening tutorial. It showed how to draw characters at difficult angles by drawing an easier view and then projecting the points over. But it looks like they are updating the site and took down all the tutorials. :( Hopefully they'll be back up soon.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Darn you're lazy! ;)

I have seen those for technical drawings, not sure I would like to use such a tool to create turn arounds, too mechanical, would have to make major retouching, so why bother when it takes minutes to make those by hands.

Will ask a guy at work, he's the CAD guy here, but he's off today!

G
joe52
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Post by joe52 »

Originally I used a vector illustration package and had a separate set of layers for using guides to do projection lines. Manually drawing projection lines for inorganics are kept to a minimum, 2 endpoints for lines and 4 points for arcs. But it becomes a different matter for organics. This is similar to the reason why most of the 3D modelers use Maya or 3D Max for the 1st half of building an organic model and ZBrush to finish it.

I've looked at Alibre and other 2D parametric packages. I don't know if I'm wrong but what I read indicates the model is built from non-modifiable primitives. However there's no 2D ZBrush counterpart to finish it as an inorganic. But it would give 3-6 views at one time, allow you work in each view, have all the other views update as you work, and import in a vector package like Xara as a tight pencil to finish before using in AS. I thought of getting and using a 3D package for this, but found out that they have a steep learning curve.

I know that some of the parts would take longer to do than manually but to get a completed final turnaround shouldn't. Part of the reason trying to do it this way is that it would be easy to bend and move the character to previz it for changes and reset it before exporting the turnaround.
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern »

Genete and I created a set of scripts that does something very similar in AS. However it is full blown "3D" and not really suited for character creation. Basically in AS you draw a front and side view the script builds bones and creates a new vector layer and assigns each point to a bone based on the two views. Then you translate a bone in to rotate the "object" or vector layer in 3D space in Anime Studio.

Doe anyone remember these scripts and are familiar with what is being asked here if they are the same type of idea? The script Genete came up with used only front and side views but worked quite well.

-----

I used ANOTHER script to export point motion from bone motion in AS to a single vector layer. So you could create single vector views of the 3D object as new vector layers. For example build a chair in "3D", then use the point motion from bone motion script to create many different views of the chair as ordinary vector layers. It's been ages since I used those scripts but they are still here somewhere in the scripting forum.

-vern
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2ner
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Post by 2ner »

I've been a 3D CAD designer for some years. Now I'm in college studying 3D animation. Any 3D animation or modeling software can export orthographic views like CAD software without the dimensions. To avoid the learning curve I recommend Sculptris.

It's like Zbrush, but it's free!

It's very easy to use. It's a lot of fun. Any artist would be thrilled with it.

See the video demonstration Here.
joe52
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Post by joe52 »

When I mentioned ZBrush, it was an example of being used in 3D work to make Maya and 3D Max appear more organic. I was wanting to do the turnaround development outside of AS. What I have in mind using AS is a 2 year goal. There's 2 shorter term goals.

The 1st is to design the turnaround views, then import it in a vector illustration package to reorganize the views, then finish each view using layers for ink and color. The 2nd is to use it in Manga Studio for a web comic, build up source material over a year to adapt in AS. This would allow working out the kinks in workflow and have more views than a normal 2D turnaround.

I might be mistaken but the focus on software for 2D looks like it has been on final assembly packages such as AS, and the starting point - illustration, but skipped over the part in between - tools for character development. These are reusable assets. Unless either a studio or a talented individual with time is doing animation, the character views are limited or if they do a transition with another view it's not consistently sized or shaped. Surely there is one or several sketch/cad type applications that can be used in or adapted for a workflow to develop turnarounds, or a script/macro to make an illustration/draw application operate like this?
brite007
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Post by brite007 »

Animation is generally divided into two kinds: 2D and 3D. 2D animation or two-dimensional animation is the more traditional face of the art form. In the US it is almost synonymous with the revolutionary work of Walt Disney and his studios but it is also known through the work of other incredible artists who have brought to live a wealth of
memorable cartoon characters and heroes. Ranging form the Warner Bross. characters to the Japanese Anime.
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