Point join problem?

General Moho topics.

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DK
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Point join problem?

Post by DK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:38 am

Can anyone tell me what causes this?

Image

Sometimes these joint errors occur in my shapes. When I delete the point in this type of join the entire section of my shape breaks apart. Is there a way to fix this problem without having to add exta points and re-join them?

D.K
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Víctor Paredes
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Post by Víctor Paredes » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:11 am

i'm not sure, but i think that this can be solved deleting the shape and painting it again.
i don't know why this happens.
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DK
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Post by DK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:13 am

Hi Selgin.
Yes, it seems to work if you delete the shape fill or outline fill and repaint it. It would be interesting to know what the cause is.Thanks for the reply.

D.K
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:33 am

This happens to me sometimes. In my case it is caused when I accidentally click twice and create two points and then join the "wrong" one creating a "non contiguous" spline. The extra dangling point usually can't be seen.

In other situations it is caused when I am modifying the mesh and delete an "extension" of a shape which creates a seemingly contiguous spline when in reality it is two "joined" ends of separate splines. Remember you can joint an end to the "middle" or "no-end" of a spline. If you delete either "end" it looks continuous but isn't.

I don't know if either of these could be happening to you or not.

As far as making the "repainting" simpler... right before you break the vector to fix the problem just select the shape and press copy in the style palette... then break the vector and reconnect to fix and then create a new shape and click paste style in the style palette. Not a perfect solution but it helps if the file shape has a lot of specific attributes that would be hard to remember.

I have not experienced the "repainting" fix you guys have mentioned. My cases always involved my own errors in connecting the ends of vectors.

-vern
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DK
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Post by DK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:04 am

Hi Vern.
I'm pretty sure it's the modifying the mesh and deleting an "extension" that is causing my problems. I was just playing about with the repaint option and it seems it is only good for half the object shape from my experiments. The only real overall fix is the one you mentioned is the total shape overhaul. Thanks for the reply.

D.K
Genete
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Post by Genete » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:59 am

1) Create an open curve (three or more points)
2) Create other separate open curve (three or more points)
3) Move one intermediate point from one curve over other intermediate point of the other curve. Press space bar (weld them).
4) Delete the portions of curves from both curves that are from the welding point to the end.
5) Create an outline shape with the resulting curve. You'll obtain that.

This broken line is due to you have created a point with two independent curvatures (form the result of welding to intermediate points) and have converted the point an "end" point of each curve but welded. This kind of point is not possible to obtain by a "normal" weld operation of ends points. You should follow the steps above to obtain it.

Also there is not solution than delete one edge and create it again (and obviously redo the shape creation like selgin said).

-G

-G
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DK
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Post by DK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:12 am

Thanks Genete for your very thorough analysis. I guess this is a problem even a script could'nt fix.

D.K
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:16 am

DK wrote:Thanks Genete for your very thorough analysis. I guess this is a problem even a script could'nt fix.

D.K
I wish! That would need to be an application fix or feature. It would be great to "keep" shapes when breaking curves.

I have thought it might be done with a script if you "copied" the shape information with the script first before breaking the curve (which ALWAYS deletes the shape) and reconnect and reapply that shape information including stacking or order info.

It would need to be a special custom tool for that one purpose.

-vern
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DK
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Post by DK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:23 am

While we're talking about points, shapes etc I have another question:
Aside from adjusting the layer set origin, Is it possible to change the rotation point of just a shape?

Cheers
D.K
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slowtiger
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Post by slowtiger » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:25 am

The shape hasn't a fixed rotation point, as it is, I believe, always calculated from all points you have selected. Easiest way to have a certain pivot point for a shape would be to leave it on its own level and adjust the level's origin.

The broken lines are a common bug in my current work (I didn't build the models). But they rarely show up in the final render, so we just live with it. This is important to remember: perfection is not needed. Adjust only what's really visible.
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AngryMonster
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Post by AngryMonster » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:02 am

I get around this problem by pretending its not there.

Actually the above technique works for a lot of issues

- scary person, voice in head ... etc 8)
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DK
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Post by DK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:58 am

The only problem with leaving it there is that you get ragged ends in your render that show up like this.

Image

Maybe i'm being a little pedantic but they really annoy me
D.K
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AngryMonster
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Post by AngryMonster » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:01 pm

yeah ... sorry D.K

I wasn't much help ... I just kidding ... :oops:

I usually re-make the shape

I don't really pretend the problems are not there ...I usually come crawling to you guys on this forum for help.

:wink:
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:06 pm

DK wrote:While we're talking about points, shapes etc I have another question:
Aside from adjusting the layer set origin, Is it possible to change the rotation point of just a shape?

Cheers
D.K
Would this be for editing or during animation?

If it is editing you can use Fazek's tools. It has a center point for rotating vectors that can be moved around. This also works for animation on other key frames. Be warned however that the center point for those points is never "saved". AS "forgets" where that center point was moved to.

Another issue is that rotating points isn't really rotation. It is translation ONLY. You can only really translate a point. You can't really rotate it at all. So you would get funky rotations anyway if they were key framed even with a specified rotation point. Best bet, put on a layer OR even BETTER use a bone. A bone has REAL rotation.

-vern
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DK
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Post by DK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:33 pm

NP Angry. It's good to get the opportunity to throw these issues out into the forum for open discussion as you never know who might chime in with a piece of gold and those darn jaggy ends have been bothering me for yonks :).

Vern, thanks for the bone advice! I'll try that.

Cheers
D.K
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