Upcoming update

General Moho topics.

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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:11 am

Rudiger wrote:I mean imagine if everyone's top feature request got implemented. That would certainly get a huge response and would be an update worth paying for.
Oh good lord, you can't actually be serious?

You haven't even used THIS upgrade yet and already it isn't good enough. ;)

Animated shape order does exist now... in script form anyway. Animated layer order is icing on the cake. I actually wrote a script that animated layer order but I didn't like it because all the layers were bouncing around in the palette... just like in the current sample movies posted here. I Can't wait to see how it works with the "real thing" though. I want to see how Mike decided to do it.

The scripted z-depth layer ordering I use currently is good enough for me but this will be great to have it IN the application. How cool.

The REAL feature to me in this upgrade is for something that not many people used anyway because it worked so badly... the texture fill effect.

I don't think you realize how freaking wicked cool that is going to be. I can't WAIT to get my hands on that feature! That feature alone has HUGE potential.

That feature is bigger to me than animated layer ordering... there was no way for me to script around it.

-vern
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Post by Rudiger » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:41 am

Heyvern wrote:The REAL feature to me in this upgrade is for something that not many people used anyway because it worked so badly... the texture fill effect.
The reason I'm not as excited over this feature is that I thought it was already possible with image warping and masking. Ditto for the layer ordering, using the depth sort method that you described. If we want to talk about script solutions, then there is also a script for path animation as well. However, these things should be a lot easier to achieve now and that's great.

Look, don't get me wrong. I am grateful for these improvements and agree that it's generous that they're being offered at no charge. It's just that the new features didn't tick any boxes for me, and I thought that might be a reason that there isn't more excitement over them.
Heyvern wrote:Animated shape order does exist now... in script form anyway.
Is this Genete's script you're talking about? I thought it could only do automatic shape ordering based on extra 3D info from his other scripts. I should definitely take another look, as this would be a good feature.
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Post by Genete » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:42 am

Rudiger wrote:
Heyvern wrote:Animated shape order does exist now... in script form anyway.
Is this Genete's script you're talking about? I thought it could only do automatic shape ordering based on extra 3D info from his other scripts. I should definitely take another look, as this would be a good feature.
In fact the sort shapes routine can be adapted to use the extra info coming from other kind of stuff not necessary 3D values from other scripts. For example the shapes can be sorted based on relative X's position of a set of bones. That set of bones can be manually moved and then the shapes would be automatically sorted... One day I'll give other surprise witht a new script... :wink:
I bet that shape sort can be easily included into AS's kernel just including a new animated channel for it.
Let LM and e-frontier team have time to create new features to include into new versions. But baby steps, please. Baby steps.
-G
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Post by Rudiger » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:04 pm

Genete wrote:For example the shapes can be sorted based on relative X's position of a set of bones. That set of bones can be manually moved and then the shapes would be automatically sorted... One day I'll give other surprise witht a new script... Wink
Nice idea! I can imagine that working rather well.

I hope LM does implement this properly one day, but until then, thank God we have the scripting interface!
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Post by Samb » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:26 pm

question at mike:
can we finally copy the keys from one layer to another?
like you got one switch and want the keyframes also on another switch. so just copy them from the first switch and paste them into the other.

that would be REALLY usefull.
also for bones etc.
Last edited by Samb on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
keisern
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Post by keisern » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:39 pm

Great updates, really looking forward to trying out the animateable layer ordering. I think it will help streamlining our production quite a lot!
Halvseint, animated talkshow on NRK
www.nrk.no/halvseint
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:40 pm

Rudiger wrote:
Heyvern wrote:The REAL feature to me in this upgrade is for something that not many people used anyway because it worked so badly... the texture fill effect.
The reason I'm not as excited over this feature is that I thought it was already possible with image warping and masking.
Well that has some serious limitations. Bone warping of images requires Flexible Binding... so if you use region binding as I do you can't use it. Masking has limitations as well and overly complicates a simple solution.

Plus the texture fill FILLS THE SHAPE. No need to use a bunch of bones to distort an image and worry about bits sticking out. You could NEVER get a warped image to "line up" with a shape.

I plan to use this for fur effects on my Happy Bear characters. Instead of struggling to create a "fuzzy" look, I could add a subtle fuzzy texture fill that follows the outlines of the shapes.

Plus warping of images isn't going to do anything about texture fills ON STROKES!!! Did you see that???? Holy freaking COW! You can use this new texture feature on STROKES.

You wait and see... this is going to be a surprising new feature with lots of potential. I hadn't even expected it until the next version.

Look what can be done with it:

Skin textures
Cloth textures
Fur and hair textures
Clouds, rocks, dirt, trees, grass, leaves, etc etc etc...

Think about this... all these shapes can be animated without bones as when you use image warping. All the cool tricks for doing stuff to vector shapes will effect an image texture fill effect.

This small feature will really add a lot more than what seems at first glance. I am going nuts waiting for it... yikes...

-------

Scripting solutions are fine in my book... but only if I CAN script them. Texture fills were unscriptable... or at least so far outside my skill level as to be unscriptable.

If I encounter something I can't do with ASP, and it is scriptable I go for it and I'm happy. This is one of the reasons I requested more scripting access to ASP.

I think layer ordering is fantastic. The z-depth and scripted solutions work fine but I would chose built in keyed layer ordering over any scripted solution in a heart beat.

If they get animated shape ordering in there as well... yeehaaa!

Like Genete said... baby steps. And... I want Mike to know every little feature is appreciated.
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Post by Rudiger » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:40 pm

Heyvern wrote:Think about this... all these shapes can be animated without bones as when you use image warping. All the cool tricks for doing stuff to vector shapes will effect an image texture fill effect.
I thought about this, but Mike did not explicitly say that a texture fill would conform to the shape for point animation. If it does, then it's a very powerful feature indeed. You could use it to distort images with an arbitrary 2D mesh, like the liquify filter in Photoshop, only animated!
Heyvern wrote:Like Genete said... baby steps. And... I want Mike to know every little feature is appreciated.
It is, but doesn't stop us wanting more, more, MORE!
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:14 am

Finally, we've improved the Image Texture fill effect. The images you use now stick to the object as it animates, warping with the underlying bone structures:
Looks like you are right. I really need to try this stuff before jumping to conclusions.

It still looks cool!

-vern
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Squeakydave
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Post by Squeakydave » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:18 pm

It all looks very positive!
I am praying that the path nodes are separate from the movement keys so that we can time the animation along a curve, If that is the case it will make my life a lot nicer :D

Are there other feature updates to be announced or is that it?

Whatever they are all steps forward (In very nice shoes)
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mooncaine
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Post by mooncaine » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:32 am

Samb wrote:question at mike:
can we finally copy the keys from one layer to another?
like you got one switch and want the keyframes also on another switch. so just copy them from the first switch and paste them into the other.

that would be REALLY usefull.
also for bones etc.
Yes, very useful.
-=-
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ASP 5.5 updated August 2007
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Lost Marble
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Post by Lost Marble » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:44 am

Rudiger wrote:I thought about this, but Mike did not explicitly say that a texture fill would conform to the shape for point animation. If it does, then it's a very powerful feature indeed. You could use it to distort images with an arbitrary 2D mesh, like the liquify filter in Photoshop, only animated!
No, a texture fill will not conform to the shape for point animation. As you move points around, more texture will be exposed, and the texture won't "swim" on top of the shape like it does now, but it won't warp itself to conform to the 2D shape either.

The texture warping is based on bones.
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Post by Lost Marble » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:46 am

Squeakydave wrote:Are there other feature updates to be announced or is that it?
I think that's it. We'll see if anything else gets added, but I'm not keeping any features secret at this point.

-Mike
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Squeakydave
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Post by Squeakydave » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:49 am

Hi Mike:
All positive and practical steps forward (Unlike a lot of software I could mention) Many thanks and keep up the good work!
marcotronic
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Post by marcotronic » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:02 pm

Hi Mike,

thanks for letting us know about the update features in advance!

I was wondering if there are any improvements planned for the GUI in the near future... I´ve bought Anime Studio 5 Pro just yesterday after trying a few days with the demo and I´m really impressed about the features and what you get for your money (especially when compared to other products like Toon Boom Studio etc...). One thing I really dislike, tough, is the somewhat "outdated" GUI of the program. I´m missing dockable windows for example. The whole look and feel seems a bit outdated to me. I know that you develop the software for different platforms, which might be a certain difficulty when it comes to OS specific GUI elements, but are there any future plans for designing a "modern" GUI?

Furthermore: Are there any enhancements planned for the timeline? (editable graphical Bezier interpolation curves (f-curves) e.g.? As in Adobe After Effects?)

These are just a few things that were striking while working with your wonderful software for a few days...

Looking forward to the update!

Marco
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