About animation style

General Moho topics.

Moderators: Fahim, Distinct Sun, Víctor Paredes, erey, Belgarath, slowtiger

Genete
Posts: 3483
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:27 pm
Location: España / Spain

About animation style

Post by Genete » Fri May 25, 2007 11:17 pm

Hi folks!
I know some of you have met me since I join the forum at October 2006. I discovered the animation world about September same year.

What I want to comment with you is something about me and what make me a little thoughtful.

Can I choose my drawing / animation style?

If you have followed my artistic contributions to this forum you can agree with me that my beginnings were not so spectacular. Just started with a quite simple sticky man.

During my animation / drawing evolution (learning to use Anime Studio and also learning to animate / draw) I have tried to make cartoon like characters but I cannot avoid to copy the real world as it is. I always do my drawings as similar to the real model as my skills let me. I would love to do characters like Gnaws or DK but I cannot. I have not a prepared mind to abstract the original model and make a simple and cartoon like character.

Drawing a character being a identical copy of the original is really a hard task. Anyway I'm happy now because I feel that my drawings are better than at the beginning, but...
What can I do? Necessarily do I have to have this style all my life? Can I change it? How? Do people change its drawing style?

Also, I'm very perfectionist and that causes me to be bored most of the times because any kind of project becomes a impossible and endless mission. How can I change my mind and fell comfortable with a non perfect animation?

I don't know if you have that "problem" or other similar but anyway it would be very helpful to me to listen your thoughts.

-G
User avatar
NightmanGX
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:14 am
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Post by NightmanGX » Fri May 25, 2007 11:58 pm

I know exactly how you feel Genete. For the longest time I wanted to draw comic books, super hero’s, and gag strips. I had always tried to draw the American comic book style. Until I found anime. Shows like Naruto, Bleach, and the Teen Titans showed a very simplistic style that could be animated.

Personally I don't think anyone can draw in another’s style, we all just use other peoples style to help build and draw our own style
Can I choose my drawing / animation style?
In a word, YES! you can chose your own style, you just have to study other peoples styles, and from them build your own.
User avatar
jahnocli
Posts: 3375
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: UK

Post by jahnocli » Sat May 26, 2007 12:11 am

These are tough questions. As I've said elsewhere here, my mother used to say "The trouble with perfectionists is they never finish anything"! You will have to make your own answers about style. The only useful piece of advice I can offer is to keep things short and simple. One finished thing, however flawed, is better than twenty half-finished things. I should know -- I must have at least twenty half-finished projects scattered about my hard drive...

Hope this helps.

J
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
User avatar
sour_jax
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:50 am
Location: Old Fort, NC
Contact:

Post by sour_jax » Sat May 26, 2007 12:53 am

My perfectionist and "scatter-brained" (is that an oxymoron?) mind-set has prevented me moving forward with much of anything. What I have found is that I have to mimic and modify other styles (my"Kinjo Kids" short is a good example) to achieve any progress at all. I'll try something and then I critic it to death and then decide I can't do it.

I would love to make an animated version of a few Shakespeare plays. But I realize that I my time and talent are limited, and getting others to help or even realize their own potential is impossible.

Perhaps, Genete it just takes time, something that it seems I'm a little too impatient to wait for.
The best things in life are free! Salvation, being the greatest!

Visit http://www.handbookforlife.com
User avatar
Ramón López
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:41 pm
Location: Elda! Again...
Contact:

Re: About animation style

Post by Ramón López » Sat May 26, 2007 2:17 am

Genete wrote:Hi folks!
Also, I'm very perfectionist and that causes me to be bored most of the times because any kind of project becomes a impossible and endless mission.
Jeje... well, I have never been in your line of work but I knew that we must finally have something in common at least :), is good to know about it! (I think :roll:)
♪♫♬ Y si no puedes estar (animando) con el programa que amas
Ama el programa con el que estás (animando)
♪♫♬
Genete
Posts: 3483
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:27 pm
Location: España / Spain

Post by Genete » Sat May 26, 2007 8:17 am

Thanks for your advices and confessions. At least it is comforting I'm not alone in this subject.

I have other question in my mind.
Recognition. It that what impulse us to show our work to others? Makes sense to do a beauty work and not show to others? (in any kind of transmission method), And then, Do everyone need recognition for his work? There is anyone that don't care about critics and comments about his work once shown?

I don't know if it is a weak aspect of my personality but I cannot live without the critics of others (in favour or against). Both kind of critics encourages me to do more (and finish the project). Maybe that's the reason I'm so active in the forum and try to reply everything where I have something to said. I don't want others to feel "alone"
Do you fell the same? :shok:
User avatar
DK
Posts: 2498
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:06 am
Location: Australia

Post by DK » Sat May 26, 2007 9:43 am

Genete. Is there a style of animation that you prefer/like above any other styles?

D.K
User avatar
slowtiger
Posts: 5497
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Post by slowtiger » Sat May 26, 2007 10:42 am

Hm. I don't have a "style", I changed it from film to film, and yet my friends say they can recognise my stuff immediately. The funny thing is that I can't spot the part where they recognise "me". And I never believed in a miraculous creative act where the artist deceives everything out of thin air - I am very aware of all my influences, down to a certain line or a shape or an ornamental detail.

Drawing stuff for more than 30 years now enables me to work in a lot of different styles. I have to be able to animate some flash character as successful as some classical pencil animation. I have to adjust to other artist's way of drawing because otherwise no studio setup would work.

I'd say that you should be able to work in a lot of styles, even that being able to work in only one style prevents you from being a professional - at least the sort of pro who can survive as a freelancer or in studio system.

But it is also true that having only one personal style is enough as long as you can create good films with it. One should just not forget that the "good film" bit is much more important than any style.
User avatar
heyvern
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Post by heyvern » Sat May 26, 2007 11:12 am

Perfectionism
In the dictionary there would be a picture of me under that word but I couldn't decide which photo was the best one to send in. ;)

Picking a style
I never picked a style. For years when I was painting and sketching. I kept asking "Where is my style dammit?".

I was always a photorealist or actually a surrealist. I loved the aspect of painting realism mixed with the impossible. That is probably where my perfectionism developed.

For years I airbrushed "freehand" very realistic portraits and illustrations on t-shirts, jackets, canvas etc.

When I went to school I was trained as graphic artist! So mix those together and watch the fireworks. ;)

When I illustrated or painted it was always extreme realism. When I did my "job" it was very minimalistic graphic design... logos... advertising... typography.

Lately (just in the last few years to be honest) I've started doing that cartoony style. I think a lot of it was due to purchasing Moho and being influenced by the current popular culture. There was no reason for me to develop an anime type drawing style before I purchased Moho. I was using 3D software to animate which was a perfect fit for my perfectionism and surrealistic style. I still do that with 3D. Photorealistic images of completely crazy ideas.

I believe a style can pick you. It develops over time gradually.
I also think you can have a style and not see it. At least not as it is developing.

Look at famous artists from the past. Some of their careers were defined in "periods" as their styles completely changed.

---------

It takes time to find a style. Your style will probably change as well if you do it for long enough.

I have no idea how to beat the curse of perfectionism. It is a curse. Some of us have it much worse than others. It can really hold you back.

In the days before the computer perfectionism wasn't as much of an issue for me. In the graphic design business with tight deadlines, done was better than perfect. Now with infinite possibilities... yikes.

If you find a cure for perfectionism let me know. I'm desperate. ;)

-----
Showing Off.
We all love to get attention. Showing off our work is a great feeling. Whether it is some cool code in a layer script or a fantastic animation. Deep down all of us cringe and get defensive when our work is criticized.

Ultimately it is how we respond to those critiques that are important. If you reject them out of hand then you lose an opportunity to grow.

Helping on the forum.
I don't know what motivates me to do it. I just love to help people. I remember when I needed an answer and couldn't find it. So if I can answer someone's question I imagine that person is ME desperately trying to find a solution.

-vern
User avatar
Víctor Paredes
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Ireland/Chile
Contact:

Post by Víctor Paredes » Sat May 26, 2007 1:55 pm

forgive me, but i must write in spanish. there are ideas that simply i can't explain in english in a fluid way.

perdóname si escribo en español, pero prefiero hacerlo así en algunos casos (me gusta mi idioma, qué puedo hacer). genete, siempre cuando converso con alguien acerca de dibujar (lo que es seguido, porque todo el día estoy dibujando) llegamos a la misma conclusión. y es lo que le digo siempre a mi hermana chica: no dibujes un dibujo de algo, dibuja el algo. uhm suena raro, pero mira, por ejemplo, si quieres dibujar al sol, no hagas el clásico círculo con las líneas saliendo alrededor. sal tú afuera, mira el cielo y dibuja lo que ves. el sol no se parece nada a los dibujos que hacen de él, y sin embargo, todos caemos en el (quizá no sea el concepto apropiado) romanticismo de dibujarlo como lo vemos en otros dibujos.
creo que para conseguir un estilo, o cualquier palabra que quieras utilizar, uno debe tratar de limpiarse, acordarse de mirar las cosas otra vez. las flores no son como las dibujan.
si puedo creerme tan maestro como para dar un consejo, es éste. sal afuera y mira otra vez lo que quieres dibujar. si no está en tu patio (porque podría ser un dinosaurio o un, em, rinoceronte), bueno, tienes google de imágenes. compila algunas y trata de extraer lo que a ti te importe del algo que estés dibujando. si un aspecto te parece importante, puedes agrandarlo, si algo no, simplemente puedes achicarlo u omitirlo.
no creo que conseguir un estilo sea afiliarse a alguna corriente, no creo en los que dibujan animé y sólo animé y siempre quisieron dibujar animé (tampoco entiendo muy bien por qué todos los dibujos de una región tienen que parecerse).
está mal tratar de buscar un estilo único que te defina. está mal porque es prácticamente imposible. pero está bien intentar conocer cómo tú dibujas, partiendo desde cero, sólo mirando. si una vez que empezaste a mirar de nuevo y a dibujar descubres que tu estilo es muy parecido a éste o a este otro, no hay problema, llegaste a él por tu propio camino. supongo que eso vale la pena.
eso puedo decir, perdona si soy muy, no sé, paternal o lo que sea. y acuérdate de dibujar todo el día. todo el día, aunque salga todo feo. los dibujos lindos no aparecen si no se dibuja.
Genete
Posts: 3483
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:27 pm
Location: España / Spain

Post by Genete » Sat May 26, 2007 10:59 pm

@DK: Is not a particular style. Is to have the ability to simplify things. For example: I'm working in the giraffe now (obviamente selgin, NO tengo una jirafa cerca de mi patio... :wink:). So I have looked into internet for some giraffe images. Then I created the front view. And I said "Wow I cannot believe I did that pretty giraffe". Then I complicated my self adding and adding details and making a fantastic ear turn... Wow! But in fact what I have in my mind to achieve is this:
Elsa is a timid but friendly female giraffe. She cannot speak 8is an animal!) but have a lot of expression in her face. I want to create an animation where I talk with her like if I were in a safari and she meet me and we were interested to each other. As I am talking to her like if she understand me (in fact she understand). She answer my questions just with her face expressions and head movements (yes, no). Finally I give her some food and have to continue my journey. She was sad a while but finally gift me a big smile...
Do I need a very realistic character? NO. Do I need a smooth side to side head turn? NO. For that simple story (maybe one minute) why I complicate it in that way? I don't know :(

So I need simplification. I need it because I believe I can achieve a decent animation to tell that story. But complicate the things is my specialty...

@slowtiger: Wow! 30 years of experience! I have only a few months of hobbyist experience and I'm wondering about my animation style :oops: You should think I'm the "newbiest of the newbies" and also a little pretentious... Thanks for your advices.

@heyvern: Hehe I discover your perfectionism only a few posts after join the forum. Man, I think there is no a easy recipe for perfectionism... But I believe also there are some medicine that can alleviate our illness. Like you have said if there is a deadline the work must be finished and then the done is better than the perfect. I have only finished two animations. One of them was the contest entry. Thank you for your thoughts and for open your mind. Your comments are always perfect :!:

@selgin: Muchas gracias querido amigo. tus palabras han sido las mejores y mas sentidas para "sanar" este "problema" que tengo. Cuando miro la realidad para copiarla tiendo a copiarla exactamente porque lo que aporto de mi cosecha (exageración de algo o cambio de forma o tamaño) me sale fatal. Lo que pasa es que copiar exactamente no me sale muy mal. Es por esto que tengo como miedo de ser tan realista (tan perfeccionista) Es muy costoso copiar la realidad (con sus detalles de luz, color, volumen, etc.) con un programa 2D pensado para hacer dibujos animados no un cuadro de Velazquez. Por eso como veo que mi estilo esta tirando por esos derroteros tengo "miedo" de quedarme toda mi vida en un "perfecto" copiador de la realidad pero atrancado siempre a mitad de camino por autocomlpicarme.

I hope I can finish the giraffe story with a 3/4 turn only and a lot of expressions in her face. So I will abandon the side to side turn of the head, only 3/4. Also I will add lots of expressions to her eyes, mouth and head. Wish me good luck.

-G
User avatar
CHIO
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: CORDOBA-ARGENTINA

Post by CHIO » Mon May 28, 2007 2:20 am

Hi all:

My two cents about this topics:

I bought for years ago a book named FLASH 5 CARTOONING...
In the last chapter there is this comment:

THE ENEMY OF GOOD ENOUGH
"There´s a tendency among all creative tips musicians. poets, novelist, animator - to hold onto their work forever, to keep reworking it, tweaking it. fiddling with it, forever, to say "I want to make it a little bit better before I show it anyone"...
....
Again, I´m not suggesting that you should publish work that you´re not proud of, or that you try to sell your work when it`s still in a rough...but nothing is ever perfect, you`ll probably never be completely satisfied with any work you do.
....
There are thousand of first novels, songs, poems, painting, and cortoons out there, hidden away in drawers, closet, and showboxes full of floppies.
....
Get it out there. You´re never going to sell your work while it´s sitting on your hard disk...

CHIO
User avatar
Touched
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:33 am
Location: Sunny California
Contact:

Post by Touched » Mon May 28, 2007 11:38 am

Hey Chio, is that the Mark Clarkson book? That's one of the ones I recommended for years when people would ask me for advise on animating in Flash. I learned a lot from it.

As for personal style, I'm sure you can make a conscious effort to develop a new style, but I always fall back to the style I'm most comfortable with, the one in my avatar. For those who aren't experienced in anime it might look like any other anime (in much the same way that I've heard some people say that all Asian people look alike to them), but it's not based on any particular artist (I could name artists who have influenced me, but the list would be long and those artists aren't well known in the English-speaking world anyway), and is recognisable as my own within the anime crowd.

On occasion, people have commented that they wished I would develop a western style that would be more "my own", which is simply ridiculous. As if me changing my style to what someone else thinks my style should be would make it more "mine". Quite the opposite.

I think the thing that really defines your style is what sort of aesthetics you prefer. To get better you must study and practise, yes, but people's styles tend to develop based on what they focus on most, and what looks "right" to their own eyes and tastes.
User avatar
CHIO
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: CORDOBA-ARGENTINA

Post by CHIO » Thu May 31, 2007 3:56 pm

Touched wrote:Hey Chio, is that the Mark Clarkson book? That's one of the ones I recommended for years when people would ask me for advise on animating in Flash. I learned a lot from it.
Yes. :D Excelente BOOK.

Regards,

Chio
tomfommber
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:44 pm

Re: About animation style

Post by tomfommber » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:15 pm

Genete wrote:Hi folks!
I know some of you have met me since I join the forum at October 2006. I discovered the animation world about September same year.

What I want to comment with you is something about me and what make me a little thoughtful.

Can I choose my drawing / animation style?

If you have followed my artistic contributions to this forum you can agree with me that my beginnings were not so spectacular. Just started with a quite simple sticky man.

During my animation / drawing evolution (learning to use Anime Studio and also learning to animate / draw) I have tried to make cartoon like characters but I cannot avoid to copy the real world as it is. I always do my drawings as similar to the real model as my skills let me. I would love to do characters like Gnaws or DK but I cannot. I have not a prepared mind to abstract the original model and make a simple and cartoon like character.

Drawing a character being a identical copy of the original is really a hard task. Anyway I'm happy now because I feel that my drawings are better than at the beginning, but...
What can I do? Necessarily do I have to have this style all my life? Can I change it? How? Do people change its drawing style?

Also, I'm very perfectionist and that causes me to be bored most of the times because any kind of project becomes a impossible and endless mission. How can I change my mind and fell comfortable with a non perfect animation?

I don't know if you have that "problem" or other similar but anyway it would be very helpful to me to listen your thoughts.

-G
it seems to me like most animators have to be able to emulate the style of whatever film they are working on. the designers get to be the ones with the personal styles. i guess its a luxury.
Post Reply