PC vs Mac

stingslang · Post by **stingslang** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:41 pm

is there anything different between the two versions?

cribble · Post by **cribble** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:34 am

The Windows version is obviously the most developed version for its platform.

They all possess the same features its just... well... the windows version runs better.

There's only minor, very itty bitty small things that are annoying about the mac version, but it's all stuff you can live with.

To put that into a metaphor. The Windows version is a nice clean house and on occasions, when Windows feels like it, he gets really messy and crashes out with loads of booze and partying. While the mac version, he's a bit here and there. Sometimes pays the bills, gets cut off; bad hair days... you know. He's a bit rugged around the edges... but everyone thinks he's a-ok, until you get to know him a bit better. They both have the same illness, they have a swf defection, you know... the type where you're fine one minute... bad the next

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:59 am

I have a Win2k 1.3 ghz PC with ASP.

I have a 733 mhz G4 Mac with OSX 10.3.9 and Moho 5.3.

I am assuming that the speed differences of the processor is very large since in some cases my Mac version of Moho runs like a depressed snail on valium. Especially large complex bone rigs with lots of constraints and layer scripts.

The same file on my faster PC runs almost in real time when dragging bones.

I don't have any experience with the "new" version of ASP on the Mac yet. And I don't know how much difference the even faster processors of new Macs would do to increase performance. I would be interested in hearing about it from other Mac users with faster machines.

I have to say... don't use AS as your guideline for a platform. If you got a Mac get it for Mac. If you got a PC get AS for PC. Keep in mind the new Macs run windows pretty well... at an additional cost of course.

As soon as ASP gets more new features that Moho doesn't have, I will buy a second copy for the Mac. I enjoy having it on both boxes. As far as I can see they run the same (except for speed as I mentioned).

-vern

mrwombat · Post by **mrwombat** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:25 am

I am using ASP on both XP and OS X on an intel iMac I have not noticed any difference except that the Mac port seems just a tad slower. Of course this may change with leopard.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:32 am

I found no speed difference between Moho 5.3 and AnimeStudio Pro. And I found no speed difference between a G5 Dual 1.8 GHz (PPC) and an iMac Intel Coreduo.

I assume the most likely reason for slowing down would be the graphics card.

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:23 am

slowtiger wrote:I assume the most likely reason for slowing down would be the graphics card.

Yes, you would think so, if it were not so, that Anime Studio doesn't use hardware acceleration inside the graphics card. So that leaves three possible bottlenecks: processor speed, memory speed and harddrive speed (certainly when exporting a file). If there is no difference between a G5 and a Core 2 Duo, obviously, the biggest bottleneck is memory speed.

I'm just speculating, but because no hardware acceleration by the graphics card is used, it could well be that most of the prerendering is done in memory. This means that if your memory is low, and virtual memory is used on the harddrive, harddrive speed also becomes an issue in large project files. And as all seasoned Moho users know from experience, this is indeed the case.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:20 pm

Aha!

This might explain why my files "slow down" after a while? All those undos and all that stuff sucking up memory over time.

I've found that a big complex file on my woefully slow Mac will run fast when first opened and slow down after a while.

I have no doubt that my slow Mac Moho is because of my puny processor. Both working and rendering.

-vern

cribble · Post by **cribble** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:27 pm

I feel a feature request coming on here...

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:58 pm

Well, to be sure of what goes on, someone should look at system performance with specialized tools, on different computer systems. I'm sure e frontier has such a computer lab, and they are able to fine tune the code. They in particular should solve these performance issues, because it can only be done with the source code available. I'm sure there is some memory leakage going on, but that could be just as well be caused by the operating system itself (QuickTime, hint-hint). Nevertheless, the code should work around such issues and try to repair what it can.

It could also be that the proprietary user interface isn't compatible with the system routines that expect a standard UI, and that this causes memory hogging. We really can't tell without the source code.

Notice, that I'm on a slippery slope here, and that my claims are highly speculative.

General support for Open GL would be nice, though, for those who have invested in heftier computer systems with a high-end graphics card would see a sudden increase in performance.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:33 pm

There is no huge problem I can see.

It would seem that newer computers (less than 2 years) are going to run AS fine.

My Mac is at least 5 years old... my PC is even older than that and runs AS like a champ.

That is the problem with us Mac folk. We hang on to our systems until the individual molecules start to disassemble.

At least I do anyway.

p.s. I still have my first Mac, a 25 mhz IIci with an enormous 40 mb hard drive and an unbelievable 32 mb of ram!

I'm not sure if it runs anymore since I stopped feeding the hamsters that turned the wheel for more power.

-vern

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:52 pm

Well, here are the system requirements, according to Amazon:

System Requirements:

Windows:
* Windows 98 SE/ME/2000 with SP2 or higher/XP (Home/Professional/Tablet PC Edition)
* 500 MHz Intel Pentium or equivalent processor or higher
* 256 MB or more RAM
* 16-bit color display, 1024 x 768 resolution
* 50 MB free hard disk space
* CD-ROM drive

Macintosh:
* Mac OS X v10.3.9 or above (Universal Binary), Mac OS X v10.4 or above recommended
* PowerPC G5/G4 processor 500 MHz or above (Intel processor recommended)
* 256 MB or more RAM
* 16-bit color display, 1024 x 768 resolution
* 50 MB free hard disk space
* CD-ROM drive

A G4 does obviously not qualify as a sufficiently fast processor, even if it meets the minimum requirements. I'm afraid you'll need at least an Intel Core Duo processor.

The reason must be that the code is optimized for Intel processors and Mac OS X 10.4, otherwise the phrase ("Intel processor recommended") wouldn't have been added. Mac OS X 10.3.9 runs perfectly fine, even on a G3, so the version of the OS shouldn't matter for the processor speed. It is probably so, that certain Mac OS X 10.4 technologies are used to speed up certain processes. If they aren't present, AS simply falls back on older technologies, which perform slower.

I think I will do some measurements on the use of system resources by Anime Studio and Moho on my 1.25 Ghz G4 with 1 GB RAM, and will report back my findings in a new thread.

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:25 pm

Here's some quick observations:

a Set Dirty (an action by AS from which you can recover with Cmd-Z) always accesses the harddrive with a write action
if you put 25 identical elements in the same layer and move one of them with the translate points tool, the processor has less work to do than putting those elements each in its own layer