AS vs ToonBoom

General Moho topics.

Moderators: Fahim, Distinct Sun, Víctor Paredes, erey, Belgarath, slowtiger

buijon
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:50 pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

AS vs ToonBoom

Post by buijon » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:50 pm

I learned about both pieces of software at Siggraph 2006. However neither had hands on demos to use, so I ended up starting Anime Studio because of bone rigging. However i`d like to know, what are the strengths and weakness of both software packages. I`m curious if i should also pick up toonboom, or if they are similar enough that only one package is needed. Thanks..
User avatar
jahnocli
Posts: 3379
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: UK

Post by jahnocli » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:01 pm

I've got an old version of ToonBoom (2.5) and it is very different from AS. There is a lot of talk on this forum about drawing in AS -- in my mind, there are no drawing tools in AS. You can assemble shapes and edit them, and construct lines. But assembling shapes and constructing lines is NOT drawing! I feel comfortable drawing in Flash and ToonBoom, and very uncomfortable with the "drawing tools" in AS.

Both programs have different strengths -- for me, the main strength of ToonBoom is the smooth cinematic movement within a pseudo-3D environment. The main strength of AS is the bones system. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

My last four or five postings were removed for some reason -- hope this stays on the forum long enough for you to see it...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
User avatar
heyvern
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Post by heyvern » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:21 pm

jahnocli wrote:in my mind, there are no drawing tools in AS. You can assemble shapes and edit them, and construct lines. But assembling shapes and constructing lines is NOT drawing!
Which program are you using? Anime Studio?

I draw in AS all the time.

;)

Buijon,

I must reply here since you are a new user.

The drawing tools aren't as bad as jahnocli has indicated. They aren't perfect but you can do much much more than just "assemble shapes and connect lines". It just takes some practice.

Just another opinion.

-vern
DVTVFilm
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: USA

Post by DVTVFilm » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:02 pm

I own both ToonBoom and ASP5-- I'm having much more fun with ASP5...
buijon
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:50 pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Post by buijon » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:14 pm

DVTVFilm wrote:I own both ToonBoom and ASP5-- I'm having much more fun with ASP5...
can you elaborate why?
User avatar
Rasheed
Posts: 2008
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 8:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Post by Rasheed » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:28 pm

I'm busy downloading demo version of Toon Boom Studio version 3.0 (not the most recent 3.5). Not from the official website, because that asks for all your personal info and I don't want to give that out anymore for evaluating software. The same as for Moho 5, there are plenty of download sites that don't link to the software vendor's site, but rather have a local copy of the installation file. It took me only 5 minutes to find one for Mac OS X, and several for Windows (same for Moho 5, BTW).

So, instead of talking about Toon Boom Studio in theory, why not talk from experience? Try Toon Boom Studio for 15 days and then tell us what you liked and disliked about it and how it compares to Anime Studio Pro?

Edit: :oops: me and my big mouth. I take that back. The demo button in Toon Boom Studio v 3.0 is grayed out after install, and therefore cannot run, at least not on my system. Probably too old (copyright 2005).

Even Lost Marble (Mike) knows that not all people like the tools of AS to design their characters. Luckily, you can design you characters in other programs (or even with pencil, paper and scanner), import them in AS, and refine/tweak them with the available tools to prepare for animation.

No one has ever claimed that AS is the perfect solution for every type of animation. It could just be that in some cases Toon Boom Studio is more appropriate, or Flash, or even an altogether other program.
Last edited by Rasheed on Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
DVTVFilm
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: USA

Post by DVTVFilm » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:05 am

BUIJON---Hard to say... But, for some reason, I can understand ASP5 more easily. Maybe it's because the timeline reminds me of Poser or FCP or RED (as far as keyraming goes-sort'a.) Maybe it's because of the BONE structure capabilities it sports that's appealing. I don't draw well, but I can certainly trace and I like the simple straightforward tracing and tools ASP5 has. And I like it's PS-like layering, Switch Files, etc... I like the way I can mix bitmap graphics, alpha-channel video all at the same in the same file with no complications. I also like it z-space camera tricks.

It's all new for me... so my perception (at this time) is that I like it better than ToonBoom. (not to say that ToonBoom can't do all this stuff also.) I've had ToonBoom for over a year-- couldn't do anything satisfying with it. I've had ASP5 for a month and I'm making cartoons. So--- what does that mean? Probably nothing. We all learn things differently. It may be, that after a while when I understand ASP5 better than I do now, I'll go back and try ToonBoom again, and this time be able to do something with it. But, for now, I want to make cartoons, and ASP5 is letting me do that --and have fun at the same time.
Last edited by DVTVFilm on Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Víctor Paredes
Posts: 4981
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Ireland/Chile
Contact:

Post by Víctor Paredes » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:32 am

jahnocli wrote:My last four or five postings were removed for some reason -- hope this stays on the forum long enough for you to see it...
are you serious??...
is censure in this forum?. that would be really sad.
can some moderator give an explanation?
User avatar
heyvern
Posts: 6964
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Post by heyvern » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:50 am

I often "lose" my posts. I forget where I posted them and think they might have been deleted.

I haven't seem much on this forum that warrants deletion to be honest... except for spam of course. As far as the outspoken words against the drawing tools in AS, I haven't seen any of those posts ever deleted.

Jahnocli? Do you recall where on the forum these posts were deleted from?

-vern
myles
Posts: 821
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:32 am
Location: Australia, Victoria, Morwell
Contact:

Post by myles » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:35 am

Speaking as one moderator, I certainly haven't been deleting any non-spam posts, and Jahnocli doesn't post spam (opinions yes, spam no).

Such differences in opinions can be valuable, and may eventually lead to inspired changes and useful improvements in the program - for example, maybe a better way to draw with Bezier tools then animate as Anime Studio splines, maybe a different implementation of the freehand tool.

Note: the possibility does exist to split or move threads (for example, into the Feature Requests section) if that is a more appropriate place for such discussion rather than more of a focus on how to use existing features. I must admit I haven't tried it myself, maybe some moderator has attempted this and run into some technical problem or bug?

I have lost a few posts through timeouts on the forum when posting or proxy problems at my end.

Oh, and getting back on topic - sorry, Buijon, I've never used Toon Boom, so I can't really offer any opinion (hmm, I did have a very limited cover CD version of the Express edition that I never tried, must see if I can still try that or if a registration period has expired). When looking at feature lists, the bone rigging convinced me too.

Regards, Myles.
"Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted."
-- Groucho Marx
Patmals
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:19 am
Location: Nagoya-shi, Japan

Post by Patmals » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:46 am

Toonboom Studio, in my opinion, is great! And yes, you cannot compare it with AS. Both different kettles of fish.

I do not have time to elaborate the pros and cons on both softwares, as i will going overseas in 2 days.

Toonboom is for the individual "tradigital" (traditional digital) animator.
You can do cutout as well with it.

anyway, im going to go and relax. im tired from running around getting ready :)

See you guys!
User avatar
jahnocli
Posts: 3379
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: UK

Post by jahnocli » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:05 am

heyvern wrote:Jahnocli? Do you recall where on the forum these posts were deleted from?
They were dotted about the forum (I favour a scattergun approach!) It happened a few days ago -- when I logged on the next time, they had all disappeared!...It hasn't happened before, and I hope it doesn't happen again -- it takes me some time to compose these rants and innuendos!!...and the occasional fragment of help...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
User avatar
Rasheed
Posts: 2008
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 8:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Post by Rasheed » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:48 am

One could write a plot about this: the mystery of the disappearing posts ;)

I have had this once a long time ago on this forum, and they re-appeared after some days. There must be MySQL devils at work here.
myles
Posts: 821
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:32 am
Location: Australia, Victoria, Morwell
Contact:

Post by myles » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:38 pm

jahnocli wrote:-- it takes me some time to compose these rants and innuendos!!...and the occasional fragment of help...
:D

As all regular forum readers are aware, it's been more in the ratio of much help ... and the occasional rant. :)

Hmm, good point Rasheed, I hadn't considered that behind the forum is a database.

Buijon, I was looking for a somewhat outdated comparison of Moho (the predecessor of Anime Studio) and an earlier version of Toon Boom on Steve Ryan's web site, but I see it is no longer there (I'm fairly sure he used to use both programs).

Interestingly, the Google search I used to look for it also revealed that Steve Ryan had possibly changed to mainly using Moho at the time.
Probably not a reflection on either Steve, Toon Boom, or Moho, just one example that you don't have to be unhappy you chose Anime Studio.

However, while I'm not a Toon Boom user, from what I hear it seems a bit like arguing over which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver. Both are potentially useful tools to have in your toolbox, and which one you use will depend on the task you have to perform.

Regards, Myles (hammering nails in with the blunt end of a screwdriver).
"Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted."
-- Groucho Marx
User avatar
jahnocli
Posts: 3379
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: UK

Post by jahnocli » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:16 pm

myles wrote:As all regular forum readers are aware, it's been more in the ratio of much help ... and the occasional rant
Thanks, Myles -- you are a generous person.
myles wrote:However, while I'm not a Toon Boom user, from what I hear it seems a bit like arguing over which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver
Absolutely. I like both programs (but it doesn't stop me being critical!)

No, I don't think there is any censorship of ideas in this forum; maybe a moderator got over-zealous or tired or something :wink:
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
Post Reply