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Suddenly Black and White

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:51 pm
by DVTVFilm
I'm working on a project that's suddenly rendering parts (like the blue Sky and grass) in B&W...

The Work-area canvas is correctly colored.

But the scene renders have some parts/layers in proper color and some parts/layers in B/W.

All was fine until--- what? I toggled some button/preference?

If so, I can't find it...

Any ideas?


Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:07 pm
by heyvern
There is no "switch" or "toggle" to make a layer black and white.

Without seeing the file or getting more details it is hard to say.

My guess would be it coulbe from modifying a style or fill effect on a keyframe other than 0... or visa versa.

A lot of times by default, fills and effects are black and white. If you then make changes on other keyframes... that black and white could still be there from other keyframes...

If you assign say... a gradient to a shape on frame 26... set he colors. If you go to frame 4... that gradient is keyed to default black and white on frame 0 and on frame 4 it will still be pretty black and white.

.. I'm just shooting in the dark here... if you could post the actual file it might help.


Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:24 am
by DVTVFilm
okay-- here's a snapshot.
I'm on frame "zero". Everything was good then suddenly some layers went B/W.... Cant figure it, since the Zero frame is Color...


Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:39 am
by bupaje
Is that a quick render or a shot from a Quicktime mov file? Do you have QT 7.1.3? If so maybe there is a problem with that. I just looked by chance at a mov that BarryBaker made a while back

and I dn't remember that title screen being black and white -and it is now.

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:55 am
by DVTVFilm
It's a CMD-R render from anime of the Zero Frame. As I mentioned, everything/every test render was going fine --then this...

What is more wierd is that if I do a CMD-P for Preview-- it renders correctly --in color!!!

If I do an -F5- for a fast renderd QT movie-- it also renders correctly and in color.

The CMD-R render is the problem... (and it was working fine earlier...)

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:13 am
by heyvern
the ground has a gradient fill in it on the gray scale version.

However it doesn't appear to have one in the color...

I am convinced it has to do with a key frame on your fill shapes. If you do a render of frame 0... frame 0 is different.

Those other renders you describe DO NOT render frame 0.


You would only get the basic fill color.

Try a CMD-R on a later frame other than 0.

Turn on all the key frames settings of your timeline. Check if there are any fill shape keys for the ground and mountains.

I don't think there is a problem with the render. The CMD-R render uses the same "engine" as rendering to a final out put or animation. And it wouldn't just "stop" working "selectively" like this.

This is definately something in the fill shapes. I would bet money on it.


Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:25 am
by DVTVFilm
I tried a CMD-R render at other frames and it's the same.

But here's what I am noticing now...

All the layers were created individually.

I then created the GROUP FOLDERS for them and moved the layers into the Group Folders.

What I think I'm seeing is that moving Layers in/out of Group Folders ---the Layers "forget' certain atributes that they once had --such as forgetting the color Gradient and reverting to the B/W default gradient...

So, can moving/repositioning Layers cause them to forget/reset certain user-defined attributes? If, so, this would be an anoying bug...

Still, this doesn't answer why CMDR and CMD-P render the same frame differently... even if it's not on frame Zero.

Guess I'll rebuild the project as pay more attention to see if this happens again...

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:21 am
by heyvern
If you could post the actual file someone could look at it and find the keyframes.

Redoing it is an option but I would love to see the actual file though.

I am convinced this is not a bug but simple "user error"... I make goofy errors all the time... curse and swear at the dang program... only to discover it was a silly mistake.

I would just like to rule that out completly first.

There is no "bug" or error involving moving layers into or out of groups. I do this constantly and never had a problem as you describe.

What you describe sounds exactly like what I have done myself on many occassions by mistake...

... I create a gradient fill and edit it on a frame OTHER than 0. When I go to frame 0 the gradient is different.

Post the actual .moho or .anime file if you can. My curiosity is in overdrive.

p.s. I see from the screen grabs you are using the Mac version. I use Moho 5.3 on Mac but use Anime Studio on the PC... I understand there might be issues with AS on Mac but I have no first hand knowledge of this.

That is one reason to find out for sure what is going on so we can inform efrontier of any issues.


Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:18 pm
by DVTVFilm
Have a look... I can't figure it out.

do a CMD-R and a CMD-P at the zero frame-- and you get 2 completely different renders.


Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:18 pm
by heyvern
There is nothing wrong with the file... there is nothing wrong with AS.

You just don't understand the difference between doing a PREVIEW render (CMD-P) and doing a FINAL render (CMD-R).

You have a gradient fill on the ground and mountains shapes. A gradient doesn't show up in a PREVIEW RENDER.

So... you just get the green of the original fill color.

When you do a FINAL RENDER... the gradient is rendered and now you get that grayscale... the gradient is black to white by default.

You need to select those shapes and remove or modify the gradient... if you plan to modify the gradient make sure you do this on frame zero.

To recap...

CMD-P is a PREVIEW render (no fill effects rendered). CMD-R is a FINAL render (all effects rendered).


Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:24 am
by DVTVFilm
Okay, thanks for explaing the difference on those 2 aspects or Render/Preview.

Regarding the gradient layers, the thing that gets me is I know I set them with their colors properly before because I did render them early on in the making of the layers to check them. I still think I must have screwed up something, because only the colors in the BG Folder changed, and the seemed to all change at the same time, not individually.... so it must be USER error on my part.

Thanks for looking at the file.


This happened to me

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:38 am
by HassleHead
I rendered and my output was black and white. I read this thread and found out what was wrong with my project:

When I selected the fill color for my shapes, I inadvertently selected gradient as the first effect, but I didn't choose "color 1" and "color 2" so everything in my drawing faded between black and white.

Hope this helps as this thread helped me find the solution to my problem.


keyboard shortcuts

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:14 am
by muuvist
DVTVFilm wrote: If I do an -F5- for a fast renderd QT movie--
I've never seen that F5 shortcut before and I can't find it in the manual, where did you find out about that and please are there any more that aren't listed in manual. Thanks in advance.

Re: keyboard shortcuts

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:00 am
by myles
muuvist wrote:I've never seen that F5 shortcut before and I can't find it in the manual, where did you find out about that and please are there any more that aren't listed in manual.
In the Announcements section of the forum, see the 5.0.8 announcement/release notes.

The release notes are always worth reading.

Apart from the shortcuts listed in the Manual's appendix, other shortcuts are shown on the menu and when you hover above tool buttons.
I think F5 is about the only known "hidden" shortcut, apart from possibly Ctrl+F5 (reload state) used by script developers.

Regards, Myles.

EDIT: Just re-reading the release notes myself, Ctrl+F5 is also useful for anyone developing brushes.

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:46 am
by heyvern
Ctrl+F5 is also useful for anyone developing brushes.
I discovered that trick by accident.

I changed brushes... AND changed a script then hit that key combo just for the script. My my, I was pleasantly surprised.

It might just be my machine but... save your changes before hitting Ctrl+F5 (command+F5 for mac). Better safe than sorry. I was sorry a few times... now I am safe. ;)