Lookout Flash!
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
I didn't think to ask. I wasn't particularly interested because 1) you can still download Moho 5.4 and 2) the only difference is that Anime Studio is going to come packaged with content.
The price, it looks like, will be $200, which I think is quite fair. If I'm wrong and it's $300 for the Pro version, that's still fair.
The booth itself was very nicely put together. I didn't hang around there much because I have all the e-frontier software I want or need (except Manga Studio) and I didn't want to bother Mike too much because he seemed a bit tired. I did tell him the only feature I really wanted to see in Moho was more control over the animation graph. So to all of you who wanted other things - tough!
It was really cool, actually. I got to meet Tony White, author of "The Animator's Workbook" and the new "From Pencils to Pixels", which I bought. I got to meet Ken Baer, the Mac guy from Hash, shook his hand and asked him some questions (I think the question to ask was, "Why is it that tiny companies like Hash and Lost Marble can put out concurrent Windows and Mac versions of their products, while other, bigger companies make us Mac users wait forever, assuming they port their software at all?") I got to try out a Cintiq. As I mentioned on another thread, I won ToonBoom Studio in a raffle. Pretty good experience altogether. But I have to say all those programmers and other tech guys with their panel discussions on "optimizing ray tracing for n-sided surfaces in non-Euclician space" or whatever, made me feel like a complete moron.
The price, it looks like, will be $200, which I think is quite fair. If I'm wrong and it's $300 for the Pro version, that's still fair.
The booth itself was very nicely put together. I didn't hang around there much because I have all the e-frontier software I want or need (except Manga Studio) and I didn't want to bother Mike too much because he seemed a bit tired. I did tell him the only feature I really wanted to see in Moho was more control over the animation graph. So to all of you who wanted other things - tough!
It was really cool, actually. I got to meet Tony White, author of "The Animator's Workbook" and the new "From Pencils to Pixels", which I bought. I got to meet Ken Baer, the Mac guy from Hash, shook his hand and asked him some questions (I think the question to ask was, "Why is it that tiny companies like Hash and Lost Marble can put out concurrent Windows and Mac versions of their products, while other, bigger companies make us Mac users wait forever, assuming they port their software at all?") I got to try out a Cintiq. As I mentioned on another thread, I won ToonBoom Studio in a raffle. Pretty good experience altogether. But I have to say all those programmers and other tech guys with their panel discussions on "optimizing ray tracing for n-sided surfaces in non-Euclician space" or whatever, made me feel like a complete moron.
without words... 
Go to this link:
The survey about PACK ANIME STUDIO 5
http://www.e-frontier.com/article/artic ... 1864/1/279
CHIO
Go to this link:
The survey about PACK ANIME STUDIO 5
http://www.e-frontier.com/article/artic ... 1864/1/279
CHIO
What exactly do you mean by "more content"?
I really hope you don't mean like default inmages to play around with and such because that's kinda pointless since animation is a skill you hown, not something that can be pre-packaged.
I really hope Mike sheds some light on the new version soon, I along with others I'm sure are getting anxious...
I really hope you don't mean like default inmages to play around with and such because that's kinda pointless since animation is a skill you hown, not something that can be pre-packaged.
I really hope Mike sheds some light on the new version soon, I along with others I'm sure are getting anxious...
Anime Studio - Ultimate Game Graphics
My understanding of "more content" (your words not mine) is that there will be a file containing more pre rigged characters and props and backgrounds than Moho 5.4 has currently.
Sure, animation has to be learned and created. But if there were a few characters in Moho that were completely rigged, with a profile, 3/4, front and back angles, it would be easier to learn how to make your own characters. This is all stuff I had to learn by watching TV cartoons and learning what I could from other people's Moho productions. It would have been great if there's been a tutorial about how to make really complicated character, like, say, the ones in The Oil Lamp. (look in the Moho Gallery)
Besides, e-frontier will be pushing a Content Paradise style website for Moho/Anime Studio clip art. Is that a bad thing? The only thing wrong with clip art is in how you use it. If you use it for a crutch, that's obviously bad...
And my guess is that if they do that, there will be plenty of opportunities for current Moho users to make reusable characters and props for the Anime Studio users. And they'll pay to download that stuff.
Sure, animation has to be learned and created. But if there were a few characters in Moho that were completely rigged, with a profile, 3/4, front and back angles, it would be easier to learn how to make your own characters. This is all stuff I had to learn by watching TV cartoons and learning what I could from other people's Moho productions. It would have been great if there's been a tutorial about how to make really complicated character, like, say, the ones in The Oil Lamp. (look in the Moho Gallery)
Besides, e-frontier will be pushing a Content Paradise style website for Moho/Anime Studio clip art. Is that a bad thing? The only thing wrong with clip art is in how you use it. If you use it for a crutch, that's obviously bad...
And my guess is that if they do that, there will be plenty of opportunities for current Moho users to make reusable characters and props for the Anime Studio users. And they'll pay to download that stuff.
"more content" could be fine, if it means that all tutorials get to be redone and extended and spiced up with some more intuitive examples. And having pre-rigged examples in a software package is an important point if you want to sell big.
I've dug up an idea about preventing Moho from being recognised in Anime-interested circles only. The variety of styles shown with examples on the package or on the program CD could easily be extended. Why not set up a contest within the existing users (means: all of us here) with the goal to produce high-quality, finished scenes, each tackling a certain style or a certain basic problem, including the rendered film clips as well as the moho file on the CD for further inspection? The "reward" for those attending this contest could be the next update for free which they otherwise would have to pay for (or something similar).
Styles to be included could be: traditional cel look, modern flash look (like "Dexter's Laboratory"), South Park cutout, collage cutout, children's book cutout, cheap cutout dialogue with politicians (you know what I mean), 3D-Objects cutout (everything photographed or put on a scanner), graphic designer's flash animation (Francois Chalet), moving custom brush lines, ... and that's not all.
I remember spending nights over browsing just all examples of stuff included on the Bryce CD, which was a lot. Just the sheer volume of it changed my attitude towards that program. Another example was the manual for FreeHand 4.0 (I'm a dinosaur ...) which saved my life more than once with the incuded examples of common graphics tasks. Moho could benefit a lot from a supportive manual/showcase like that.
I've dug up an idea about preventing Moho from being recognised in Anime-interested circles only. The variety of styles shown with examples on the package or on the program CD could easily be extended. Why not set up a contest within the existing users (means: all of us here) with the goal to produce high-quality, finished scenes, each tackling a certain style or a certain basic problem, including the rendered film clips as well as the moho file on the CD for further inspection? The "reward" for those attending this contest could be the next update for free which they otherwise would have to pay for (or something similar).
Styles to be included could be: traditional cel look, modern flash look (like "Dexter's Laboratory"), South Park cutout, collage cutout, children's book cutout, cheap cutout dialogue with politicians (you know what I mean), 3D-Objects cutout (everything photographed or put on a scanner), graphic designer's flash animation (Francois Chalet), moving custom brush lines, ... and that's not all.
I remember spending nights over browsing just all examples of stuff included on the Bryce CD, which was a lot. Just the sheer volume of it changed my attitude towards that program. Another example was the manual for FreeHand 4.0 (I'm a dinosaur ...) which saved my life more than once with the incuded examples of common graphics tasks. Moho could benefit a lot from a supportive manual/showcase like that.
I just had a nasty shock - I nipped onto the eFrontier web Store and tried to buy Manga Studio - a dummy run for buying future copies of Moho. I have European credit cards and PayPal, both of which are acceptable to eFrontier.
So I am just a little surprised (and disappointed) to see the following.
So much for Bill Gates's comment that "we now live in a flat world" (this is, the internet and ecommerce has created a level playing field.
Perhaps Fahim and eF can look into this - Korean, Philipinnes and Thailand the area where I work are all big animation producers - potential sales for Anime Studio 5 (why is it 5???) are large.
Yet from personal experience, I know the options facing users here. If they cannot buy it legally online, they will be faced with the choice of
Rhoel
BTW: I don't have to purchase Manga Studio - the full version is available in my local IT mall for US$3.50.
So I am just a little surprised (and disappointed) to see the following.
It looks as though the problems we have in buying Moho before in Asia are going to be repeated with eFrontier.We're Sorry. The requested product is not available for purchase at your location.
So much for Bill Gates's comment that "we now live in a flat world" (this is, the internet and ecommerce has created a level playing field.
Perhaps Fahim and eF can look into this - Korean, Philipinnes and Thailand the area where I work are all big animation producers - potential sales for Anime Studio 5 (why is it 5???) are large.
Yet from personal experience, I know the options facing users here. If they cannot buy it legally online, they will be faced with the choice of
- chasing a copy from a foreign retailer.
- downlooading via torrent or
- do the normal and buy from the pirates.
Rhoel
BTW: I don't have to purchase Manga Studio - the full version is available in my local IT mall for US$3.50.
Last edited by Rhoel on Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looked at the proposed box designs in link above.
If one is not interested in Anime, I wonder how these designs will attract people interested in making other non-Anime Animation.
Moho was for all types of animation - from cutout Southpark style to traditional to Anime to every type of animation. You want to do any type of animation then Moho was your animation software.
This new "Anime Studio" name and box design says one thing - you use this ONLY if you are into making Anime-style animation.
And if they include lots of Anime models and characters and backgrounds and whatever so one can just take the finished things and make your own cartoon----well, Holy Simpsons Cartoon Studio toy software. (Hope it is not so.)
And the price of $200 - $300 ($199 and $299 probably ). That´s a potential killer. And it will probably have the standard e-Frontier 30-days only demo instead of the very nice unlimited demo terms available now.
The suits have taken over LM.
If one is not interested in Anime, I wonder how these designs will attract people interested in making other non-Anime Animation.
Moho was for all types of animation - from cutout Southpark style to traditional to Anime to every type of animation. You want to do any type of animation then Moho was your animation software.
This new "Anime Studio" name and box design says one thing - you use this ONLY if you are into making Anime-style animation.
And if they include lots of Anime models and characters and backgrounds and whatever so one can just take the finished things and make your own cartoon----well, Holy Simpsons Cartoon Studio toy software. (Hope it is not so.)
And the price of $200 - $300 ($199 and $299 probably ). That´s a potential killer. And it will probably have the standard e-Frontier 30-days only demo instead of the very nice unlimited demo terms available now.
The suits have taken over LM.
It is possible that this e-frontier wants to sell something Anime Studio anyhow, so they found a software what they can transform into their requirements, with a relatively small work. In this case, they will transform Moho as they want, regardless what was it before. But perhaps Lost Marble can continue Moho in a separately developed way, for example like Gimp and Filmgimp have common roots but now these softwares are so different and not compatible. If this is the case, I vote for the Lost Marble version.
- - - Fazek
Well, the box cover art is stupid for two reasons: first, making that kind of complex art with Moho would be pretty much impossible for all practical purposes; second, no sane person would try to animate artwork that complex in any program, or with traditional tools.
Basically, this is like taking artwork rendered in a 3D program and slapping it on the box cover of Adobe Photoshop. If you put out a graphics program, the box cover needs to feature art that's been MADE WITH THAT PROGRAM!!!
Guys, we're just going to have to make sure Moho survives the way we've been doing it up to now; through word of mouth.
Also, I really don't think $200-$300 is too much for a piece of software. We've been spoiled so far. And when I was at Siggraph just now I saw a new piece of 3D modeling software that has basically only the modeling functions of Animation:Master ($300) and they were planning on selling it for about $1,400.
Basically, this is like taking artwork rendered in a 3D program and slapping it on the box cover of Adobe Photoshop. If you put out a graphics program, the box cover needs to feature art that's been MADE WITH THAT PROGRAM!!!
Guys, we're just going to have to make sure Moho survives the way we've been doing it up to now; through word of mouth.
Also, I really don't think $200-$300 is too much for a piece of software. We've been spoiled so far. And when I was at Siggraph just now I saw a new piece of 3D modeling software that has basically only the modeling functions of Animation:Master ($300) and they were planning on selling it for about $1,400.
Did they sell any???MarkBorok wrote:when I was at Siggraph ... I saw a new piece of 3D modeling software ... selling it for about $1,400.
Animo sells for a heap of money, how many people are using it. Not many, and the number continues to fall.
eFrontier are gambling with the price - introduce it at 300 and see if it sells. If it moves the target amopunt they will pat themselves on the back. If it doesn't, they'll drop the price until it shifts X amount of copies per month. Nikon did exactly the same with the Capture 4 software for the DSLR camera - they figured that serious amateurs who buy $1000 cameras would shell out for such software (the only one to process NEF RAW photo files): The pro's wouldn't bat an eyelid as the price. They got it seriously wrong. It made a lot of people angry and they ended up by drastically reducing the price. Its now around the $150.
Until I see what the package is, I'll make my mind up on the price ... having a bunch of character libraries added to the program will not interest any of the pro users - simply a waste of CD space. For the amateur user, it will be of use but they are not going to shell out $300.
Knowing the timeline for release is important - there has been no major release of Moho and it looks like the AS5 (now does't that abbreviation look like ASS
) will take time to be beta tested and released. Its a pity that, despite the Siggraph launch, there is no information on the eF site as yet. Hopefully, they will get this done ASAP to halt the speculation and rumours.
Rhoel.
Rhoel:
I am guessing that this Lost Marble forum will be shut down soon and a new "Anime Studio" forum started over at efront.
The pricing efront uses is based on what it´s other products sell for. They could not sell it for less, nor more than what their other products sell for.
What about here at the LM site? Hardly a word from LM about any of this anywhere - who at LM cares about the loyal Moho customers?Its a pity that, despite the Siggraph launch, there is no information on the eF site as yet.
I am guessing that this Lost Marble forum will be shut down soon and a new "Anime Studio" forum started over at efront.
The pricing efront uses is based on what it´s other products sell for. They could not sell it for less, nor more than what their other products sell for.
You could try "the dark side" at www.daz3d.com and see if you have any better luck over there. They sell some eFrontier items too. Although, I'm guessing that if you can't get MS from eFrontier you probably won't be able to get it from daz either.
Might be worth a shot anyway, I guess.
They have Manga Studio EX on sale for about $209 USD... until August 14-15 or something like that.
Sorry I'm not 100% on the details.
Might be worth a shot anyway, I guess.
They have Manga Studio EX on sale for about $209 USD... until August 14-15 or something like that.
Sorry I'm not 100% on the details.
Rhoel wrote:I just had a nasty shock - I nipped onto the eFrontier web Store and tried to buy Manga Studio - a dummy run for buying future copies of Moho. I have European credit cards and PayPal, both of which are acceptable to eFrontier.
So I am just a little surprised (and disappointed) to see the following.We're Sorry. The requested product is not available for purchase at your location.
I met a rep at the eFrontier booth at the FanimeCon in San Jose last May, and he told me about some plans they had with Moho, but at the time it was more in the vein of offering Moho-friendly content we could import and use, such as ready-to-bone-rig figures. I thought that was great news all by itself, but this actually sounds much bigger and cooler.
Can a no-talent hack make cartoons with just clip art and a Mac? You bet!