question about 3D object shading

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CandyCoated
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question about 3D object shading

Post by CandyCoated »

Hey all -

I'm mostly a lurker here as I feel I haven't had a ton to contribute. I use Moho for most of my 2D work though.

I am still using Moho 12.xx, and am looking at 13 for an upcoming project. I would like to make use of the .obj import as it would come in super handy, however, from looking at the sample videos, it appears that the light source is per model and is attached to the model's transforms. i.e. if I rotate the model, the light source rotates with it.

Prime example, I'd like to place the light source coming from upper left on a ball. As I rotate the ball's 3D transform, the light source should continue to highlight from the upper left. Looking at the video samples, it appears that when the soccer ball gets rotated in the sample on the smith micro website, that the specular highlights/shading rotates with it as well.

Is that always the case? And if so, does that mean you have to keyframe object rotation, and then also keyframe the light source to compensate? (If you are trying to mimic sunlight for instance.)

I hope that makes sense.

Thanks!
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CandyCoated
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Re: question about 3D object shading

Post by CandyCoated »

71 views and not a single response...Maybe this is an area of the software that very few are using?
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jahnocli
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Re: question about 3D object shading

Post by jahnocli »

I don't use .obj import much, but I'm pretty sure you're right about light sources -- they have to be "baked in" to the 3D geometry before the files are imported into Moho.
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slowtiger
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Re: question about 3D object shading

Post by slowtiger »

If you need that kind of 3D, use a 3D software.
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Greenlaw
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Re: question about 3D object shading

Post by Greenlaw »

I agree. Moho's 3D support is very basic and the few times I've tried to use it, I wound up faking the 3D or turning to a dedicated 3D program for rendered elements.

Sometimes I'll do the compositing inside Moho as this might be necessary for direct character interaction. For example, on my recent demo reel, look at Big Guy's 3D troll hair. This is actually a 360 turntable animation of hair fibers rendered as an image sequence from LightWave. The sequence was then imported to Moho and the rotation is controlled using a Smart Bone. In other words, even though the hair render is 3D, the way it's used inside Moho is not. The rest of Big Guy is just sheets of felt I scanned in, and made it appear to have form by painting light and shadow on separate image layers. By sliding the felt under the 'shading' layers, it creates the illusion of rounded objects being lit from a 3D light source. To a degree, I can shift the light source by sliding the shading layers. (Note: In case anybody is wondering, yes, I was inspired by Victor's 'Woolbuddies' work.) :)

Or, I'll try faking 3D using vectors with texture fills, and then morph the vectors using bones and Smart Bones. The truck in the Boss Baby scenes on that same demo reel is done that way. In this case, the truck is actually all 2D vectors with painted fills, just rendered to appear 3D. The sports car in a single shot is the only real 3D object in the entire sequence and it was rendered from LightWave. But most of the time, even the sports car is just a 2D image painted to look 3D.

I typically use LightWave because it's easy to use and has decent cel-shading tools, but any 3D program will work if it can render the look you want from it. This is just easier for me because I get way more control and options to work with.

I tried to use Moho's 3D in a couple of other sequences for Boss Baby but it just never looked right and I was able to get the shaded '3D' look I wanted by just drawing and rigging it that way in Moho (i.e., like the truck or even Big Guy's hair.)

Most of the time, I'll just composite the third party rendered 3D elements with Moho's 2D renders in a compositing program like After Effects, Fusion or Nuke.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Greenlaw
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Re: question about 3D object shading

Post by Greenlaw »

FYI, I know you were specifically asking about Moho 13's 3D tools vs Moho 12's. The devs are re-booting 3D support with Moho 13 but at this time, I'd still say it's a bit primitive. The re-booted feature may become more useful over time but for now, in my personal opinion anyway, it should be considered experimental.
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CandyCoated
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Re: question about 3D object shading

Post by CandyCoated »

Thanks for the detailed responses! I'm no stranger to 3D - been doing it for years. The thought of doing some light 3D inside Moho was very intriguing to me and the real-time response looked great also.

Given that the 3D implementation is still very new, I'd likely do reverse compositing when it makes sense until the 3D integration is improved. (Rendering out character plates and dropping them into my 3D scenes in C4D for integrating with 3D scenes and objects) Sometimes it will make sense to render out 3D sequences from C4D (mostly for object manipulation) and composite in Moho. In either case, it's a messier workflow than if I could just rely on bringing those objects into Moho for simple things.

Anyway, thanks again. This helps me to understand what's possible at the moment.
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CandyCoated
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Re: question about 3D object shading

Post by CandyCoated »

jahnocli wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:31 pm I don't use .obj import much, but I'm pretty sure you're right about light sources -- they have to be "baked in" to the 3D geometry before the files are imported into Moho.
Actually, based on the video I watched that got me intrigued about this feature, the light sources are not baked in. They are live light sources, but they are tied to the transform of each object. So if I bring in a soccer ball and then rotate it in 3D, the light source rotates also. That light source is being created in Moho. I can also rotate the light source but it's per object....so no global light sources. I'm not expecting to create a full 3D scene or anything like that, but it would be great to remove the light sources from the objects and have the ability to have a global light source.

I know it's limiting but just that one simple change would make a huge difference in usability.

Here's the video I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... SFPrM8MCBY
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