Action referencing issue in Mainline

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studiosjj
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Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by studiosjj » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:52 pm

Hi All,

I have a bird character that i've set up and rigged in the mainline and created a few different walk cycles for it as separate actions. The problem is the animation works fine within the action but as soon as i reference the action in the mainline the bones that have positional keyframes have lost their information?

Within the action:
Image

When either referenced or copied to mainline:
Image

It seems to be some weird bug when you separate dimensions on the timeline it effects the mute/un mute status of that channel?

Does anyone know how to fix it or have a work around/workflow?
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synthsin75
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by synthsin75 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:27 pm

If you mute a channel in an action, you can only unmute it inside that action.
studiosjj
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by studiosjj » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:56 pm

In the action all the channels are un muted.

But when i insert a reference no bone transform animation only rotation:

Image

I really don't get it?
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jupitor6
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by jupitor6 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:02 pm

And there you have it! This is the mess I wrote about here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31809, regarding Smart Bones conflicting with each other. This is not unique to you. I've rigged characters just the same with Smart Bones and Actions that work on the Actions timeline, but then freeze on the main timeline. I would then, as an experiment, delete Actions from the Smart Bones that actually work, and voila! The troublesome ones start to perform as they should! Then the task is to redo the whole character so that nothing conflict with each other! We are now software debuggers and beta testers. Total nuts! :shock:
Still doing it.
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synthsin75
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by synthsin75 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:03 pm

Not sure how people expect software to read their minds. If you have two or more smart bones trying to control the same bone's translation at the same time, how is any software supposed to guess which you actually want to work?

This sort of thing can usually be solved by adding padding around the smart bone's default angle before it can act on anything.
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jupitor6
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by jupitor6 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:15 am

synthsin75 wrote:Not sure how people expect software to read their minds. If you have two or more smart bones trying to control the same bone's translation at the same time, how is any software supposed to guess which you actually want to work?

This sort of thing can usually be solved by adding padding around the smart bone's default angle before it can act on anything.
I can't think of a scenario where anyone would have two bone dials controlling the same bone in a manner such as one bone dial wanting the bone to move to the left, while the other wants the same bone to move to the right, simultaneously. That makes no sense. If one dial was only for moving up and down and the other for moving left to right there'll be no conflict. This is not the bone conflicts i'm talking about.

My problem is using smart bones on the arms and legs (to make the joints bend smoothly) and with bone targeting on the legs. These cause problems for the target bone. Once actions that are linked to the arms are deleted the target bones on the legs work properly.

Please explain what you mean by 'padding around the smart bone's default angle'.
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synthsin75
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by synthsin75 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:18 am

jupitor6 wrote:My problem is using smart bones on the arms and legs (to make the joints bend smoothly) and with bone targeting on the legs. These cause problems for the target bone. Once actions that are linked to the arms are deleted the target bones on the legs work properly.
I'd have to see an example of that to diagnose why it isn't working. Works fine here.
Please explain what you mean by 'padding around the smart bone's default angle'.
If a bone's default angle is included in the smart action timeline, it has control, even if not rotated. You can rotate the smart bone a bit on frame one of the action, to keep the default angle from doing anything.
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chucky
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by chucky » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:36 am

If auto freeze is on... could that cause issues in smart actions?
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hayasidist
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by hayasidist » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:33 am

studiosjj wrote:In the action all the channels are un muted.

But when i insert a reference no bone transform animation only rotation:

Image

I really don't get it?
in that screenshot the translations are muted -- notice the red dots.

there is a "feature" that means channels that are muted still behave as un-muted in actions. IOW the translation will work in an action but not in mainline
studiosjj
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by studiosjj » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:38 pm

So the consensus that i'm basically stuffed? I'm from a mainly 3d background and I've rigged and animated a lot of characters and even with the extra dimension i've never been faced with a brick wall like this! I'm now basically having to write off a lot of work because i cannot utilise the animations i've been working on. That truly sucks!

Such a shame as i quite like moho/anime, it took awhile to get my head around it. But the fact that its fundamental functions just don't work make it unusable for paying work.
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chucky
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by chucky » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:21 pm

It's a walking chicken you want … right?The chicken is not stuffed and neither are you.
I haven't really followed the problem, but I can say walking chickens is not a problem, do you really need this mute thing you are doing?


Oh hey, listen just make a copy of the action in the mainline, don't reference the action if that's what is causing the issue with the muting.
Then you can play with the animation all you like, even make new actions from the changes and keep the old ones.

Does that help?
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hayasidist
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by hayasidist » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:56 pm

yeah - just unmute the translation! (this "feature" bit me a while back -- I had a smartbone controlling points - so mainline didn't have a point motion animation channel so I didn't have any indication there that the channel even existed let alone had been muted!! move the SB in the action -- stuff happens; do the same in mainline -- nothing happens. Remedy: unmute the point motion channel in the action)
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chucky
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by chucky » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:28 pm

BTW , it a great looking rooster.
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studiosjj
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by studiosjj » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:07 pm

thanks for the help guys i really do appreciate that you guys took time to help. I managed to sort it by copying all the key frames from the action into the mainline, then just fixed the offset issues that arose, for some reason the muted channels would re-mute themselves? Hard to concentrate with 3 kids playing around me, joys of being a single parent with a deadline.
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chucky
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Re: Action referencing issue in Mainline

Post by chucky » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:32 pm

Image
Use this to copy the action keep to the timeline
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