New computer recommendations wanted

[Ahroo]

I'm probably going to have to replace my current computer, and I want to buy (or build) something
that will be better for Moho animation (particularly improving rendering time). I am a hobbyist, and I
don't have unlimited funds, so I am looking for recommendations about which components are the
most important for getting the best experience for working with Moho since I cannot afford to get the
best for all of the components. In other words, where can I "scrimp" and where should I plan to spend
the most. [My idea of "gaming" is Solitaire, so that is not a concern at all, and if my current computer
weren't starting to show signs of dying, I'd probably not be looking at doing this at all as it is more
than adequate for everything else I use it for. But since we're approaching the Black Friday/Cyber
Monday frenzy, this is probably a good time to be considering this.]

So, if I can only afford to get a better version of just one or two of these components, which are the
most important? How would YOU prioritize if this were your computer?

CPU - how important is CPU speed? How important is the number of cores (I currently have an AMD
quad-core)? If I go with an Intel CPU, would an i7 really be that much better than an i5, or even i3? Is
it better to get a faster processor with less cores or vice versa or doesn't it matter for Moho?

RAM - I imagine that the more, the better, but is this really where the biggest improvement in
performance (especially rendering time) comes from? How much improvement could I realistically
expect from, say, 16GB over 8GB? 32GB? (I currently have 4GB) Or is RAM speed more important
than amount of RAM?

GPU - I've read some threads that imply that this mostly affects preview quality - does it have much
effect on other aspects of Moho, particularly rendering times? I currently have integrated graphics;
would a dedicated graphics card make much difference? And if so, which specs would be the most
important - speed or ram?

Hard drive - I think I would get a SSD for the OS; should I also put the Moho program on the SSD, or
on the standard hard drive? What about working files?

Anything else I should consider?

Thanks for your time and advice!

Laura

[synthsin75]

In order of importance...
I think four CPU cores is all Moho currently makes use of, so that should be plenty. I would suggest i7, but you could probably make due with i5...that's as low as I'd go. For render speed, CPU speed is most important.
You can never have too much RAM, but 8-16GB should be plenty unless you plan to use a lot of high resolution images or video in Moho. Too little RAM can bottleneck your CPU speed during rendering.
GPU won't effect render times, but IMO you need dedicated graphics for any animation/video editing. Probably GTX800 series minimum.
SSD is nice, but not necessary. High-use programs always go on a SSD.

If you figure out a budget range, we can probably be a little more specific. And I'm sure others may have different opinions.

[DarthFurby]

I'd get the fastest/best CPU you can afford. The rest you can upgrade at a later date when funds allow.

[dueyftw]

If a laptop, you will be happier with a larger screen. Try to get a hd one. Smaller one are a pain because Moho has dialogs that open up to a preset size that will not fit on small screens.

Dale

[Ahroo]

Thank you all for your input.

I had briefly considered getting a laptop, but for several reasons I have decided to stick with a desktop.

While nothing is set in stone at this point, I am hoping to keep my budget within the $700-$800 (US) range. Definitely under $1000, and would prefer within the $500-$600 range if I can manage it (especially with upcoming holiday sales). I figure that no matter what I end up with, it should be light-years beyond my current PC (home-built in 2010, Win7, AMD Phenom X4 9750 Quad Core 2.4 GHz processor, integrated graphics, 4GB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz RAM - it all came as a DIY bundle so I didn't have to make any individual selections).

At this point, I am very confused about CPUs and could use some assistance in understanding the various options. I've seen, for example, an i3 at 3.7 GHz, an i5 at 3.5 GHz, and an i7 at 3.0 GHz - if speed alone is what matters, then I would think the i3 would be best, but I know that is not the case. I'm also seeing different "generations" and series' names (Haswell, Skylake, Broadwell, etc.) - I don't know how to interpret or compare all of this stuff. And what about AMD processors? I'd be very grateful for some insights into the wacky, confusing world of CPUs!

[synthsin75]

While I'm not expert on computer hardware, I did like AMD until I did research for my last PC. Seems AMD has fallen behind Intel a bit. i5 is considered general consumer and i7 high-end consumer. i3 is economy consumer.

Here's a good rundown on Intel processors: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404674,00.asp

[kitzeldikatz]

AMD will release the Zen early next year. The prototypes looked promising and can compete with Intel. So maybe you wait until that comes out it could put some pressure on prices.

For fastest rendering you need 4 physical cores and very fast memory. For a 3.4GHz processor something like 2133 MHz. GPU doesn't matter the internal one will do. Just make sure the mainboard has the video connectors you want. Usually more video outputs means less PCI slots.

For desktop processors i3 has two cores with hyperthreading, i5 has 4 cores without hyperthreading and i7 has 4 or more cores with hyperthreading. Whether hyperthreading is an advantage depends on the software.
For notebook processors even an i7 can have only two cores and can be slower than the fastest desktop i3.

Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake are the names of the processor Generations.
Haswell: 4th, Broadwell 5th, Skylake 6th.
Broadwell is the same architecture as Haswell but in a new technology.
Skylake is a new architecture with the same technology as Broadwell.

I would recommend Skylake because it supports DDR4 with a higher bandwidth and uses less power so less noise from the fan.

This is a benchmark site to compare processors:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=2565

You see that processors barely get faster with each generation: The 4th generation i7 4790k is even slightly faster than the 6th gen. i7 6700k. But since memory bandwidth is important I would take the latter. This CPU will do for the next 10 years.

16 GB of RAM is plenty.
A 240 GB SSD will last a while unless you produce a lot of videos. Memory bandwidth should be over 400 MB/s and IOps over 70000.

You will need a new power supply because of the power saving modes of the CPU. 400..500 W is plenty even if you consider buying a GPU.

[Ahroo]

Thanks again, Wes and kitzeldikatz - your advice and information have really helped me sort through a lot of this! I've definitely decided on an i7 processor, although not yet on the specific one, and 16MB of RAM. I still haven't decided on whether to rely initially on the integrated graphics and add a dedicated card later on if I feel I need it, or to go for it right off the bat. Again, while I figure that ANYTHING I get will be a major improvement over what I have now, I don't want to settle for lesser components just to save a few bucks if I will want more speed/capacity later on. As I've been researching my options, I see that my budget is creeping up to the upper limits of what I wanted to spend (and maybe even a bit higher), but I guess that eliminating the frustration of very slow rendering will be worth it - even for just a hobby! Again, thanks a lot.

Laura

[synthsin75]

I tend to spend more to future-protect the investment. The better the specs, the more likely it will be able to handle new software and OS upgrades that come out in the future. So if you have a good history of your computers outlasting their own performance (they don't die before they are too slow to handle new software/OS), then it may make sense to spend more now to save on having to buy/upgrade sooner.

My last laptop's case started falling apart before the performance started bothering me. And even then, it took XP becoming obsolete to get me to buy a new one.

[Greenlaw]

If you can afford it, go for an i7. It might not make a huge difference for the current Moho but it could make a difference as the program grows more complex, or when you want to user other software for productions down the road.

In my case, I purchased a reasonably powerful i5 laptop for my daughter last year. It was about all I could afford for her at the time but I really wish we could have waited to get an i7. She's happy with it for painting and creating FBF animation, but when we tried to add her computer to our motion capture network, it really struggled to keep up with other computers, which are all i7. That's probably an esoteric example, but I think this setup could have worked with even an entry level i7. Anyway, she also wants to learn 3D animation, compositing and other more processor intensive applications, and I think she would have benefited more in the long run with an i7. Even some 2D paint programs (like Rebelle and Painter) are using realistic physical simulations for natural media these days and can benefit greatly from a faster processor.

If you plan to use a lot of high-res bitmaps in Moho (I typically use a lot of 3k - 4k textures at work) then you'll also want as much RAM as you can get. This may be less of an issue if you're planning to use only vectors for art but, even so, if you also plan to work in HD at all, you'll want more RAM.