Moho 12

General Moho topics.

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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12

Post by Greenlaw »

I posted this info in another thread this morning but it's probably relevant here too. If you already saw this post, please skip:

The biggest improvements to the Moho 12 Freehand tool are that the tool now draws peaks properly and it's much smarter about point optimization. Here's a quickly sketched comparison in each program, with minimal cleanup:

Image

The Moho version obviously has fewer points and they're more intelligently placed. Note especially the corner areas. The Moho version has nice sharp corners; the ASP version really has no corners at all.

Also, although it doesn't look like it in ASP, I had pen pressure enabled in both programs.

There are a few 'glitchy' things that can occur but I know the developers are continuing to improve the drawing and freehand tools as I write this. For the most part, Moho 12's Freehand tool is far more usable now than it's ever been.

Additional notes:

I normally have Auto-Weld disabled. The option has its uses but it can interfere when drawing lines that are close to each other. Depending on what I'm drawing the element for, I may have Merge Strokes on or off. In the above example, I I had Auto Close enabled for the Moho version. If you don't do that, you'll need to close and weld the shapes manually as I did in the ASP 11 version, which can be troublesome. But it really depends on what you're drawing and how you intend to use/rig the drawing.

It's worth noting that the Point Reduction code is the same as the one used for Select Simplify, so if you draw something you like but you used a PR setting that was too low, you can adjust it using the Simplify button. (If it's important, be sure to save before doing this though.)
Last edited by Greenlaw on Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
chucky
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Re: Moho 12

Post by chucky »

On weld open ends...
It is a really awesome feature, maybe it should have a toggle though. I do like to sketch first and although it is really fantastic for cleanup, it can get in the way of lose sketchy work.
Since the freehand and drawing in general is going through such a renaissance, I would not be surprised if a small addition like a checkbox/toggle for welding open ends to be around soon ( I'm guessing) as well as any little fixes or improvements to what has been a big shift in the way Moho lines are created , and therefore the way artists will use it.
I have requested the checkbox formally btw.

Good example there Greenlaw :)
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12

Post by Greenlaw »

I still wish there was a way to 'erase' points while using the Freehand tool.

If you switch to the Delete Edge tool and hold down Ctrl, it does what I'm talking about, but since Delete Edge is available to the Freehand tool (with Ctrl), I think Delete Point should also be available. (Obviously the modifiers will need to be changed or it might get confusing.) Just a thought. :)
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Reindeer
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Re: Moho 12

Post by Reindeer »

Day three with Moho 12. I am really enjoying every new feature (even those I'm still just playing with). Some are real game changers. Edit multiple layers in the timeline has already made my work easier, with more clarity and less to-and-fro.

The only thing that really irks me is what I’ve already commented on a few posts ago: the Freehand tool automatically connecting stroke extremities.

To not sound like I’m nagging, I want to stress that the Freehand tool is really much much better than before. Not just some better, a lot better. It’s downright good, I rate Moho could be used as a vector drawing tool in its own, it’s that good. I think the team really nailed drawing this time, and it's exactly its being so good that makes the forced autoconnect stand out even more. Try sketching, drawing freely, you’ll love the experience and suddenly the insidious connecting strokes will inevitably get in the way and take some of the joy out.

If it’s a glitch, I’m hoping for it to be done away with soon soon. If it’s intended to be a feature (I can even go as far as seeing the use for a kind of semi-auto weld, provided it doesn’t have to be on all the time), I’m really hoping for it to be put on a toggle.

I love this update, great job! Please, do away with the connecty thingy (or give it an option) :)
chucky
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Re: Moho 12

Post by chucky »

Reeindeer calm thyself. :D
I have already reported the welding toggle ( it should have always had a toggle).

In defense of Mike Clifton's amazing efforts of to get this done, all the incredible freehand improvements had to come after all the bezier stuff, so by necessity of process there would have been very little time to push the freehand in, even though I know he may have been very very keen to do so and also was perhaps under huge time pressure (I would guess). ( lot's of caveats here :wink: )
I am more than sure there will be a patch for this end weld toggle and a few other little things that simply could not make it through the pipe before all the big business wheels started turning. ( again it's not for me to declare that, it's just a guess based on past form.

It's awesome that you posted about this though, the artists who use Moho are the ones who inform the devs about their workflows, I don't know how much sketching programmers get to do , but the different ways of working I'm sure can be as mysterious to them as their work is to us ( generally speaking).
The beta team always have their say but word from you guys always helps describe users experience more fully.
These little things normally get cleared up in a point release very close after the main release ( I'm just postulating here , I'm in no position to make any statements of fact or speak on behalf of SM, almost everything I'm saying is complete guess :D Did I say that? .... just guessing )
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Reindeer
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Re: Moho 12

Post by Reindeer »

chucky wrote:Reeindeer calm thyself.
I have already reported the welding toggle ( it should have always had a toggle).

Ha :D My agitation spurs from sheer enthusiasm. Thanks for relaying!

I can see what you mean when you mention the Bezier implementation coming first in the hierarchy of things. I suppose that's why the Freehand drawing feels so much better now, the points just seem to be so much more stable. Even the post-drawing cleanup now is really impressive, it can simplify drastically whilst respecting the original line.
I find that with Moho12, if you set the FH tool to your taste and switch "Show Curves" off (just to get that 'natural' feel) , you actually have a very good drawing tool in its own right.
In the last two days I've found myself doing something I never really could before with ASP: enjoying drawing per se. I now can doodle characters IN Moho rather OUTSIDE Moho, I don't necessarily have to turn to paper, Photoshop, Clip Studio, Sketchbook Pro, you name it.
So, yes, this has been a quantum leap.
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negroclarito
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Re: Moho 12

Post by negroclarito »

Telemacus wrote:Moho?? :shock: really?? :shock: is that the best you can come up with Smith Micro?? :shock:
I don't think "Moho" is a very commercial name for an animation program at all. I never liked "anime studio" because it confuses people (I too thought anime studio was an anime-maker before I came back to it), but "Moho" is even worse!. Why not include the "animation" word in the new program´s name, to make it simple for new buyers who don't know the history of anime studio??

Smith Micro doesn't seem to understand the pyramid of potential users of its program

Is amazing the new MOHO 12!!!... but I agree with you. This program is getting better and better and it has a big potencial... BUT... Smithmicro don't realize a couple of things very important

1 - Name. MOHO is not a good name.... also in spanish MOHO means "mustiness, mildew, mold". Also my experience with the word "ANIME" when I told people I use ANIME STUDIO they thought is an anime program.
2 - The website is very poor for this software. It deserves a better website. It looks like a second-class program.
3 - The gallery examples are very important when you want to choose an animation software. Only Victor Paredes and some other look professional. The other ones seem a cheap flash animations and don't show the potential of this software. I remember years ago (since Anime Studio 5) when I heard about this software and saw some examples I thought it was a very bad program... only because I saw one good example in youtube I decided to use it... and I was impressed by it's potential
4 - Customer support is horrible. I had a problem last year and they never answer or it takes a week to get an answer.
5 - Each version is getting more expensive. I don't care because I think it's worth its price, but I think change price every time a new version is released is a mistake. This is based on comments of friends who have older versions and they use it a couple of times a year and when previously paid 100USD to upgrade now have to pay 269USD. The difference is not much money, but when you have to pay a few more programs makes some people stop using it.

I want to say this software is the best for animation (not for frame by frame animation) and every year they surprise me with new features... but is also good to know the weaknesses that should be improved. :wink:
Tidou
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Re: Moho 12

Post by Tidou »

Agree 100%.
JaMike
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Re: Moho 12

Post by JaMike »

negroclarito wrote:Smithmicro don't realize a couple of things very important...

Agree 20 % (option 5 only)

1. The name. Apparently there was a vote. The people have spoken. but obviously not enough Spanish people. :wink:
2. The website. If you are the type of person who judges a product by its website, you're not likely to appreciate the product anyway. It's fine. But for discussion what animation software has a better website in your opinion? Seriously?
3. The gallery. For the hobbyist market, people want to see something that is within their capabilities. They want to be inspired and not intimidated. As long as there are SOME pro examples, then everyone is happy.
4. The support. With the new higher price, maybe they can improve the customer support. But you're not exactly paying for support at this price. This forum is probably the best support forum out there. Look at Toon Boom. You pay a fortune for support, and their official forum is a spam-infested ghost town. Right now over there I see more new posts about OpenToonz than about Harmony. :shock:
Psmith
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Re: Moho 12

Post by Psmith »

At best, Smith Micro's marketing strategy is dilute and takes a "mixed" approach - trying to address and maintain their amateur animator audience - while obviously trying to appeal to a Professional audience with high level features and a higher price.

They are "trying anything" to get and maintain customers.

First impressions do make a big difference. Should the website emulate the "Crazy Talk" style of art and advertising? Trying to capture THAT market? Hmmmm.

Yes, that level of animation quality is within the abilities of almost anyone with fingers.

Personally, I would lean the website toward the "Make Classic Quality Animations With The Most Productive Methods" approach - having on the Home Page an Overview Video demonstrating the overall process for doing so. The emphasis being on "The Tools DO Make a Difference".


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rucodemente
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Re: Moho 12

Post by rucodemente »

JaMike wrote: If you are the type of person who judges a product by its website, you're not likely to appreciate the product anyway. It's fine.
I work in advertising (McCann Worldgroup, working for a global brand). I can tell you: EVERYONE judges a product by its packaging, website, cover, etc.

I'm not saying it's the only thing that matters, but appearance plays a HUGE role to make a purchase decision, especially when you're launching a new product (or rebranding it).
JaMike wrote: For the hobbyist market, people want to see something that is within their capabilities. They want to be inspired and not intimidated. As long as there are SOME pro examples, then everyone is happy.
The same goes for this. I understand it's hard to let go the hobbyist market, however, sooner or later they will have to put more efforts into the professional market if they ever want to succeed there. The first thing they should do in my opinion is to have separate websites for Debut and Pro.
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synthsin75
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Re: Moho 12

Post by synthsin75 »

I don't see anything wrong with the website, especially appealing to professionals. They have gifs that demonstrate some of the new features in use, so people who know animation software immediately know that Moho is worth looking into. I really don't know what else you could ask a website to do.
chucky
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Re: Moho 12

Post by chucky »

synthsin75 wrote:I don't see anything wrong with the website, especially appealing to professionals. They have gifs that demonstrate some of the new features in use, so people who know animation software immediately know that Moho is worth looking into. I really don't know what else you could ask a website to do.
http://my.smithmicro.com/anime-studio-2 ... ntent.html
This page isn't great :mrgreen:
Icky.
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synthsin75
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Re: Moho 12

Post by synthsin75 »

I seriously doubt professionals are seeking out free content.
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slowtiger
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Re: Moho 12

Post by slowtiger »

If you're using "free content", you're not a professional.
AS 9.5 MacPro Quadcore 3GHz 16GB OS 10.6.8 Quicktime 7.6.6
AS 11 MacPro 12core 3GHz 32GB OS 10.11 Quicktime 10.7.3
Moho 13.5 iMac Quadcore 2,9GHz 16GB OS 10.15

Moho 14.1 Mac Mini Plus OS 13.5
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