Why Is Anime Studio Pro So Cheap?

[Greenlaw]

My path in 3D and 2D animation has been a bit all over the place. Like heyvern, my first professional use of 3D was Ray Dream Designer/Studio, which I used as a freelance illustrator for a couple of years, creating character/concept designs and backgrounds for Klasky-Csupo and Disney. That was back in mid to late '90's. When I started thinking about getting into 3D animation and visual fx professionally, I first looked at Animation Master because it was an inexpensive entry level program. Unfortunately, I could not get that software to run on a Mac for more than a few minutes without crashing, so I abandoned it and went more high end. I was using Electric Image Broadcast for a while, which was a very good renderer at the time but not so much for character animation and back then it didn't have a native modeling program. Finally, I switched to Lightwave in 1998--the Mac version of LW also had a rocky start back then but it got better quickly, and it wasn't long before I was regularly working in feature films and television. Eventually, I switched to the Windows version to be consistent with the studio I was with (I was Senior Digital Artist for the Box at Rhythm & Hues for 12 years,) and I've been using LW for commercial and film work ever since.

Since we're discussing the price of software, Lightwave 5 cost my about $1100 at the time as a cross-grade from EI. That's not terribly expensive for professional 3D software and using it (along with Eyeon Fusion and Adobe Photoshop,) continues to be my primary source of income. The full price of Lightwave 11 today is actually less expensive than Lightwave 5 was back then, but it's many times more powerful.

Nowadays, I use a hybrid workflow of many different 3D and 2D applications, and ASP is the latest addition to the pipeline. 'Scareplane' was an in-house experiment to see how well ASP could fit in. Nearly all of the animation in that project was created in ASP and I'm mostly happy with how it turned out. My 'day job' is still primarily visual fx for live action features, but Alisa and I are currently creating a 'Saul Bass' style closing titles animation for a film using ASP and it's been working out very well.

Funny thing is, I started out wanting to be a 2D animator but it's taken me this long to get around to doing that professionally.

G,

[Greenlaw]

I forgot to mention that one of the reasons I've been drawn to ASP is that its bones and rigging system share many similarities with Lightwave's system, so rigging for ASP feels very natural to me. (As a matter of fact, there exist some ASP rigging features I wish the Lightwave developers would adopt for their 3D program.)

G.

[dueyftw]

I think that the price reflects the cost of programming and maintaining the program. Most software that has any complexity needs a host of programmers to add new features and make sure that it will run on the next version of windows. The cost is reflected in the manpower of the software, also you can add in company greed. Years ago I look into getting a license to use a new 3D game engine. The owners wanted 1 million.

Dale

[Danimal]

Raydream Studio

Boy is that a trip down memory lane. I loved Raydream and when it went under I replaced it with Carrara which I still use to this day. Never touched Animation Master but it seems worth checking out.

I also couldn't agree more with this:

Then I found Moho. It was like it was designed EXACTLY for me! AWESOME! Cheap as heck and REALLY FREAKING COOL. Had the same bones and constraints as Animation:Master. Fell in love at first "demo". Learned it in hours. Never looked back.

[JetT]

I think the current price for Anime Studio Pro is the sweet spot, I don't think it's cheap I just think other software is over priced. Where they get it spot on is with Debut, it is very inexpensive, about the price of a movie at the moment. I hear all the time about people buying their children a copy of Debut or buying it on impulse for themselves to tryout, it's a really neat way of getting people onto the platform who will eventually upgrade to Pro.

Where Anime Studio get it wrong is with marketing I think. The name is somewhat misleading. I know a dozen people who poured scorn on Anime Studio for not catering toward frame-by-frame Japanese animation because the name gave them that expectation, even those who only used the trial claiming it hijacks Google results. I won't call it a lure because I think it's more to do with a bit of ignorance on the part of SmithMicro while trying to create a consistent brand, but animators who predominantly want to do anime style productions will undoubtedly be dissapointed, but I also know people who were looking for what Anime Studio offers who were gushing over it and ditched Flash in a heartbeat. I know at least one person who assumed Anime Studio though was actually Retas Studio because SmithMicro distributes its sister software Manga Studio (Clip Studio Paint) by Celsys. Retas Studio of course actually being the software used in most anime productions in Asia which I know a lot of people keep looking for.

Expanding on this a bit, the anime community from what I have seen is very defensive of the art form and you can't just go slapping the anime label on anything unless it has proper context. When ImagineFX one time ran an issue about manga, users on the forum were outraged that the cover was not manga-esque at all and some saying even the articles haven't a clue. Other forums also had topics about it which also questioned the featured artists who they didn't think did a good job of representing.

Manga Studio on the other hand was actually a pretty good name for Comic Studio (Japan title at the time) because they used it in Japan to create their comics which catered to their traditional habits. Anime Studio would make total sense if SmithMicro was distributing Retas Studio under the name. I think SmithMicro need a new name that is more relevant to the core demographic Anime Studio is aimed toward and have a much clearer identity, at least in my experience. Calling it Anime Studio in my opinion is like calling it Frame-by-Frame Studio.

TVPaint did something really bizarre recently with their pricing, they ran a discount on their Professional Edition but not their Standard Edition. Discounts are always good especially in our current climate, but those people who were waiting for a discount to get a foot on the platform are still left waiting since TVPaint doesn't really have a true entry level product. The Professional Edition was still $300 more with the discount than what they currently can't afford for the Standard Edition. DigiCel Flipbook, Retas Studio and Toon Boom all have PLEs (Personal Learning Editions) and either fairly priced software or entry level software like Flipbook Lite, Toon Boom Studio and Anime Studio Debut while Retas is about $180. Considering Anime Studio Pro itself is fairly priced it's commendable SmithMicro still reaches out with Debut.

Apologies if I went a little off-topic, just my thoughts. It's a good price point. I got Anime Studio Pro, Corel Painter and DigiCel Flipbook for roughly the price of TVPaint Standard/Animate (which I also have, but just wanted to make the point about price disparity).

[EHEBrandon]

I think the current price for Anime Studio Pro is the sweet spot, I don't think it's cheap I just think other software is over priced. Where they get it spot on is with Debut, it is very inexpensive, about the price of a movie at the moment. I hear all the time about people buying their children a copy of Debut or buying it on impulse for themselves to tryout, it's a really neat way of getting people onto the platform who will eventually upgrade to Pro.

Where Anime Studio get it wrong is with marketing I think. The name is somewhat misleading. I know a dozen people who poured scorn on Anime Studio for not catering toward frame-by-frame Japanese animation because the name gave them that expectation, even those who only used the trial claiming it hijacks Google results. I won't call it a lure because I think it's more to do with a bit of ignorance on the part of SmithMicro while trying to create a consistent brand, but animators who predominantly want to do anime style productions will undoubtedly be dissapointed, but I also know people who were looking for what Anime Studio offers who were gushing over it and ditched Flash in a heartbeat. I know at least one person who assumed Anime Studio though was actually Retas Studio because SmithMicro distributes its sister software Manga Studio (Clip Studio Paint) by Celsys. Retas Studio of course actually being the software used in most anime productions in Asia which I know a lot of people keep looking for.

Expanding on this a bit, the anime community from what I have seen is very defensive of the art form and you can't just go slapping the anime label on anything unless it has proper context. When ImagineFX one time ran an issue about manga, users on the forum were outraged that the cover was not manga-esque at all and some saying even the articles haven't a clue. Other forums also had topics about it which also questioned the featured artists who they didn't think did a good job of representing.

Manga Studio on the other hand was actually a pretty good name for Comic Studio (Japan title at the time) because they used it in Japan to create their comics which catered to their traditional habits. Anime Studio would make total sense if SmithMicro was distributing Retas Studio under the name. I think SmithMicro need a new name that is more relevant to the core demographic Anime Studio is aimed toward and have a much clearer identity, at least in my experience. Calling it Anime Studio in my opinion is like calling it Frame-by-Frame Studio.

TVPaint did something really bizarre recently with their pricing, they ran a discount on their Professional Edition but not their Standard Edition. Discounts are always good especially in our current climate, but those people who were waiting for a discount to get a foot on the platform are still left waiting since TVPaint doesn't really have a true entry level product. The Professional Edition was still $300 more with the discount than what they currently can't afford for the Standard Edition. DigiCel Flipbook, Retas Studio and Toon Boom all have PLEs (Personal Learning Editions) and either fairly priced software or entry level software like Flipbook Lite, Toon Boom Studio and Anime Studio Debut while Retas is about $180. Considering Anime Studio Pro itself is fairly priced it's commendable SmithMicro still reaches out with Debut.

Apologies if I went a little off-topic, just my thoughts. It's a good price point. I got Anime Studio Pro, Corel Painter and DigiCel Flipbook for roughly the price of TVPaint Standard/Animate (which I also have, but just wanted to make the point about price disparity).

But the thing is you could a anime style.. That is the style of I like to do in my animations... Also that one guy forgot his name nails it done perfectly doing a Japanese style animation and his technique is technically frame by frame with point animation only and drawing out his frames on paper. You could also use switch layers for frame by frame. Over all I don't think the style is the issue I usually make anime style characters in Anime Studio Pro it's more the persons fault for not taking the time and not learning the program which is okay. But really with anime one thing I learned by starting a anime series recently is lots of color correction in a video editing software or exporting it as a PNG Sequence then adding color correction from there. The style is easy to draw and animate as long as you draw it out first but it's getting the color correction right in the other software to give it that touch. See Japanese default is RETAS and they offer these color correction options by default but Anime Studio doesn't have that so we need use a outside program

[ARTzuza]

Sorry if this has been posted before but Anime Studio Pro 10 is very cheap and I have no idea why....

Hey, EHEBrandon, Are you serious? I just hope the Project manager of Smith micro don't take so seriously your suggestion to increase the ASP price based on your suggestion that "it is very cheap." I dont think is "Cheap", I think the price of ASP is one of the most interesting features (I know the power of the Rig system is the most interesting feature, but the price in my opinion is the second one). I have been animnating in 3D with Maya and in the last 2 years with Blender (i choose blender because i am a Indie animator with a indie studio and i need optimize the cost/benefit relation), and when I was working in 2D i Was using Flash, but my "expertize" is not in Frame by frame animation, but i have a lot of experience in animation 3D using bones and rigged character, therefore my natural option was Toon Boom because people says me that TB have bones too.... but the price is not good for my studio, therefore I looked for another alternative, then it was when i found ASP. Anime Studio Pro was very atractive for me when i discovered it because the bone (rig) system for animation was very powerfull and atractive, and it integrates pecfect with our pipeline...but when I saw THE PRICE of Anime STUDIO, then I fell in love with ASP. I am sure that if the price of "ASP" have been higher, perhaps I was using another software now, maybe one software with similar or lower price than "ASP" or perhaps using an open source alternative. So for me, the price is perfect , and it is one of the most attractive things today have "ASP"....THAT ATRACTIVE PRICE!!!!

[braj]

I really appreciate how cheap ASP was when I bought it, first I bought Debut but quickly realized its limitations, and Pro 9 was on sale at Amazon for just $65. Right afterwards 9.5 was released and I upgraded, then 10 came out and I waited till SM had an upgrade sale for $69. I never would have 10.1 if not for the incremental, small costs. Being poor is my reality, so I really appreciate that this wonderful tool is priced reasonably, and deals can be had if you are patient. I was watching videos on Youtube of the making of the Secret of Kells scenes and Anime Studio was one of the tools used. I do think there is pro traction but I don't know how often tools get credit in production, but it definitely inspires me that I have a pro level tool to grow into.

An early video of waves made in Kells:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijOW3nhNaXQ

[ARTzuza]

I agree, with ASP you can do anything, not only cut-out, not only bone animation, But let's be honest, ASP specializes in bone animation, and although you can do other types of animation, Frame by frame (FBF) is not the best feature of ASP (indeed, its sucks) and the workflow for FBF in ASP is so different to another "Standard" Animation tools in the industry and in my opinion that is the reason why many Studios are not using ASP: The Studios looking for (and pay money) for a software that fits with his pipeline, it is very difficult for a study modify its pipeline in function of a more "cheap" software. And it is not only my opinion, see the post about features that ASP need to improve, and you will see what i am talking about: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19689

I do not think ASP is “cheap”, but $299 is a really fair price, and I do think that another software (like TBA, TBH) are really overvalued in price. I do not think to increase of ASP is a smart idea considering the current target of ASP. I agree with you that with ASP I can do anything with other 2D Animation software, but in a “PRO” Studio there are certain "other" things that are necessary and ASP missing it. I say that what matters is not the tool but the artist, HOWEVER I think the professional studios today looking for a tool that allows them much integration with another tools and to have a workflow clean and consistent with his pipeline, and I think the way to work in ASP is sometimes a little different to the “common” pipeline of a Pro Studio. For example, you have said that ASP can do animation "fame by frame", but let me tell you, I've worked in studios where normally combine cut-out and frame by fame, and how ASP does FbF is really painful for someone who normally works such animation, and studies can not afford to buy software that they will bind them to change their workflow and the workflow of the animators who are currently working in the industry in animation frame by frame. I have made FbF animation with ASP and it is really different to another traditional or digicell softwares however I have no problem with this, but for a traditional animator and for a Studio to change his workflow is really hard (in efford and in money).