How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

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AmigaMan
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by AmigaMan » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:05 am

So you are saying that just because I can work fast, I deliver poor quality or something?
No not at all. I was just joking that you'd only be able to charge for one days work :D
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slowtiger
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by slowtiger » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:16 am

There are more things to consider.

It might be possible to do one 20 sec scene of talking heads in one day. It may not be the best possible animation, but good enough for the job. It will not have complex rigging or outstanding design.

But the next job will have the same characters walking and acting, and that's nothing you do in 1 day. Next time you have to do several scenes, and maybe one of them gives you a headache because you can't figure out how to do it best. You will make mistakes, you will run into technical problems, you will have to re-do stuff. All this has to go into your calculation as well.

Alays check what other people are asking for, like on Kickstarter:
"per-minute costs of various high-profile animation projects on Kickstarter ranged from $3,333 to 13,750 per minute of completed animation. Gagné and Yuasa have budgeted their animation at $15,000 per minute" (from http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commen ... 72508.html)

I'm already happy if I can get 3000.- € per minute, which is something of an "official" rate german TV station pay. Advertising rates are higher.
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acid breakdown
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by acid breakdown » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:34 am

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dm
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by dm » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:29 pm

You people are frighteningly inexpensive.

What's the end use of the commercial? i.e.: internet, local ad, national, etc.? What are they selling? How long is it going to run? Where on the planet are you located?

Even if you could do the whole thing in an hour, $250 is too low.

Go here: http://animationguild.org/contracts-wages/ look at the rates. That's union scale in the US. I NEVER work for scale. It's always more than that. Whether working for someone else, or on my own projects.

Estimate how long it's going to take to do the work, triple that estimate, and charge for that amount of time at whatever rate you feel comfortable with.

You could also ask them what sort of budget they had in mind.
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by slowtiger » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:53 pm

Usually it gets to that. After my first qote they always say "Oh, we didn't plan that much ...", to which I ask "So how much are you planning to spend?". For the number they give me I tell them what they can expect - which sometimes is still good enough, and sometimes totally sufficient.
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acid breakdown
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by acid breakdown » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:56 pm

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Droxon
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by Droxon » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:20 pm

I'll love to hear your experiences on finding jobs, where are you getting them?
Maybe I'm looking on the wrong direction :(

Well I get my jobs on Elance and the best price I can get is $1000 for 1 min but not always, one time I got a 3 min job for $4000 but it was just 1 TIME ... I'm always competing with a lot of indians and sometimes the want to charge like $20 bucks!(or lower than $100) Is really hard to compete with extremely cheap bids :(
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by dm » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:23 pm

acid breakdown wrote:I gave up adding 'a production fee' years ago. No Producer (if he's on the ball) is going to pay you double or triple the amount it would take you to do...not with budgets these days. If you are a freelancer animation professional (here in the UK) and are approached to create a spot for TV all yourself then they are ultimately looking to paid for your time and no more. If they have a larger budget to spend then they will play it safe and approach a smaller boutique animation studio where they will expect to pay 'triple' the cost due to larger overheads.
I should point out that 'tripling' the time estimate is only to compensate for inexperience in bidding. Even with experience, it often takes longer than you anticipated in the beginning. For all it matters, I never bid hours of work, I bid a finished product, with all sorts of constraints and fees indicated if the client changes things. Still doesn't go over very well when they change things, but at least it's agreed upon in the beginning.

Think of auto repairs. My experience with them is that they give you an estimate for the repair. You agree to it-for parts and labor. They might call you later to say it's going to cost more, because they found some other problem-or it might just cost what they estimated. But, how often do you suppose they charge you less than the estimate, just because the mechanic did it faster than estimated?

So, if you thought it was going to take three weeks, and it only took one, tell them so, and charge them less. I've done that. It hardly ever happens, but they seem to appreciate it when I do.
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by dm » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:34 pm

Droxon wrote:I'll love to hear your experiences on finding jobs, where are you getting them?
Maybe I'm looking on the wrong direction :(

Well I get my jobs on Elance and the best price I can get is $1000 for 1 min but not always, one time I got a 3 min job for $4000 but it was just 1 TIME ... I'm always competing with a lot of indians and sometimes the want to charge like $20 bucks!(or lower than $100) Is really hard to compete with extremely cheap bids :(
Get an agent.

I don't understand the mentality of attaching a price per minute. Animation isn't like meat: charged by the pound.
acid breakdown
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by acid breakdown » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:52 pm

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dm
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Re: How much to charge for a 20 second commercial

Post by dm » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:47 pm

acid breakdown wrote:In the UK, if I was to over estimate then I'd not get the job.
Probably similar for everyone. I think you're missing the point of the tripling the time estimate. I give up, I don't care.
Similarly, if I was to stipulate before I commenced that 'I will charge more if you make more than one set of changes' then i'd not get the job either. No TV Producer is going to agree to anything but a buyout. If I was unable to work within their budget or timeframe then I'd probably not get offered work again.
So when they make more than one set of changes, you just absorb the cost? Or you say "No", and they're OK with that? No you don't you do this (which is the same thing, essentially):
acid breakdown wrote:That is why I always agree on an end date so the client knows they have me for x amount of time for x amount of animation for x amount of money. So if they go over that date then they can come back to me to negotiate a new contract. And i always try and get half paid upfront and the final payment on delivery. ...
Interesting to hear how other animators do things. I've been using the same contracts for 30 years, and it keeps on working. Even works with my UK clientele...And, for all it matters, my contracts usually include a use limitation. Whether that means they can do what they want with it forever, or that their use is limited in scope somehow-it's still written down in advance.
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