where´z the pros?

[MarkBorok]

There's no 2D animation program with the feature set of Moho, AFAIK. AEFX comes close, but is aimed at motion graphics rather than character animation.

Yes, the forum shouldn't be thrown out. Newcomers are going to look at the gallery first. I would recommend a prominent link on the LM web site to a Moho "show reel" featuring some of the most impressive work. Also, I think there's no reason to divide the gallery area into categories. It means you just have to click on extra links and I really doubt visitors to the site care what category an animation is from.

It's a question of "putting your best foot forward" from a marketing point of view. Right now you go to the Lost Marble homepage and you see an animation that does not really show Moho in its best light. Then you click on "gallery" and instead of seeing stuff produced with Moho you get a page of text and links. So basically you have to drill down two levels to see what the program can do.

[The400th]

There's no 2D animation program with the feature set of Moho, AFAIK. AEFX comes close, but is aimed at motion graphics rather than character animation.

Hmmm, have you tried Harmony? Toonz 5? Animo OSX? Because those are the high-end packages you're talking about competing with.

[7feet]

Y'know, I've played with most of them, to some degree. But I suppose I'm a bit of a partisan. I'm comfortable with Moho's basic features, workflow, all that, warts and all. I'm a lifelong sculptor, and I like it because it lets me use the same "head", but in a 2d environment. I suppose coming from being a pro in a few entertainment fields, but coming to Moho relatively fresh( somewhere at version 3.whatever), without having a background in digital illustration, in some ways helped. I have 2 bros who are comic artists, one makes his living now doing conceptual design for vid games. He spent a fair amount of time, for him, trying to explain the ins and outs of Illustrator, et al. Never realy sunk in that deep, Perhaps that's my problem. But its not. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't be hacking it as much as I have. One of the things I love about v5 is that you don't have to leave it alone. What you got outa the box, with a little brainsweat, can be wrenched into the shape you want it. Every major tool is a script! Its in front of you!.

LM said he didn't want to include the script reference with the main docs, lest people think you couldn't use the program without knowing how to script. I can understand that. But I think the feature set is there. Its more of a matter of figuring out how to leverage it to your advantage.

Where'z the pros? I think their spending a few minutes growing, figgering out whats what with a new process. I'm a pro in clay and model animation (and a bunch else), and perhaps now in 2D, we'll have to see about that. Not everyone sits around and visits forums. Myself, I was a bit of a luddite and thought they were just stupid up until 2 years or so ago, and then I found a few spots I liked. I still don't much like the "environment" of a lot of "places". Here has been an exception. I like something that makes me feel like I'm BSing and brainstorming in my livingroom.

I respectfully disagree that the forums should be trimmed dowm. If you can attract some folks in the industry by throwing 'em a copy, by all means do. But the current incarnation is still only half a year old or so, and the difference just between the beta and now is pretty stunning. It seems like there are many other pieces of software trying to play catch up. Seems to me that the input here might allow this small company to stay ahead of the game. Just my 2 cent. Okay, off to buy even more crap to make a whole pile of physical effects type zombies. God, I love films...

[MarkBorok]

There's no 2D animation program with the feature set of Moho, AFAIK. AEFX comes close, but is aimed at motion graphics rather than character animation.

Hmmm, have you tried Harmony? Toonz 5? Animo OSX? Because those are the high-end packages you're talking about competing with.

I've tried Toon Boom Studio and I'm familiar with the features of the TAB (low end version of Toonz) and Animo. Neither has bones and I'm not aware of any mid-range software that has particles, shading, a genuine 3D camera, animated noisy outlines or any of a number of other features. I also know of one or two cut-out animation systems, but one of them is much more basic than moho and the other I'm not sure about its feature set.

The high-end programs you're talking about are aimed at studios with commercial projects, not independent animators working on films for the festival circuit, which is what I was talking about.

[The400th]

not independent animators working on films for the festival circuit, which is what I was talking about

You are assuming, of course, that independent animators don't use high-end tools. Take a look at the winners of the big festivals, see what they use.

[zlimbot]

where´z the pros?

where are all the pros that use moho?!

2weeks///////still no (NEW)* pros///////
*pros that weren´t already members on mohoforum

how can u all be wanting moho to do more when u don´t even use it ass it is???
moho posts a new update to moho 5.2 - embedded scriptz,photoshop files,line animation. where´s all the samples of work usng these
new features by all u longtime moho forum memberz? i guess the real question is from me not just do proz use moho, but does anybody use moho more than just for simple stuff? seemz like most of the usual posters at these moho forums have never done much with moho. from what i have seen most peopel are not doing more than the simple basics...beginer stuff.
why does moho need all the new features if nobody uses them?

new update to moho 5.2 - - embedded scriptz,photoshop files export,animated line width////////
does anybody use those????? why not????

[The400th]

Real pros don't necessarily need to use every new feature available to them in a program, in the same way they don't necessarily need to use every font size, font style and emoticon available in a forum.

[CrAzY Dan]

Real pros don't necessarily need to use every new feature available to them in a program, in the same way they don't necessarily need to use every font size, font style and emoticon available in a forum.

(he he)

Maybe the professionals don't need to come here and ask for help or give out help because they would be busy doing their thing.

Dan

[cribble]

oooh, oooh... bitchy.

[kdiddy13]

Wow, it only takes a week and a half for a pro to do a quality animation! I'm not quite sure what you expect from animators but quality animation takes time. A single animated show for Foster's Home takes a TEAM of animators 5 weeks, and they already have a pipeline and assets built. Not to mention the "pros" are probably already in the middle of a project and can't switch gears to try out every new bell and whistle, no matter how nice the features may be (and animated line widths and photoshop layers are definitely nice features).

In other words: It may be a little while. Cool your jets, hoss.

[zlimbot]

ooooooooooooh lookie at the new lost marble front page!!!!
pro animation added!!!!
yipeeeee!!!! mr. square pants is gone!!!!
yahooooooooooooooooo!!!!

[zlimbot]

Real pros don't necessarily need to use every new feature available to them in a program, in the same way they don't necessarily need to use every font size, font style and emoticon available in a forum.

to the400th funneeee!!! use of a font size in another program is same as photoshop files export in moho!!! heavvvy sarckasm i believe.
my zlimbot quotes::::::::: -

new update to moho 5.2 - Cool Cool - embedded scriptz,photoshop files export,animated line width////////
does anybody use those????? why not????

not pros, 400th and cribble--------anybody!

does anybody use any of the beyond-the-beginner features of moho???? 400th do you? cribble do you? does anybody???? check the ///shareyourwork/// section-nuthin´ but basic simplebeginner work there just using the basics of moho. does anybody use:
) embedded scriptz,
) photoshop files export,
) animated line width
) write scripts (other than about oneperson here)
) import files that end in .ai
2mcuh 2 remember, now i copy from moho website////
) Virtual camera: simulate multiple layers of depth with easy-to-use camera tools.
) 3D camera: the camera can also move in full 3D, allowing you to move around a scene.
) Brushes: use different brush styles on line art.
) Layer masking: control and animate the visibility of a layer.
) 3D layers: import 3D models to use as characters or scenery. (most people just play withit i have seen no animationhere.)
) Automatic lip-sync: you supply the mouth shapes and audio file, Moho animates it.
does anybody use these features??? why nothing (or very little in the share forum)
i don´t use these moho features. doyou 400th??? does anybody???? who is moho making these features in the software 4??????
)))))))))))))))))))))))))

cribble////is it correct u don´t even use moho´s bones feature??????
quote from cribble / http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2091 /

3)can't answer as i don't use bones... aybe i should?!

bonez is moho/moho is bonez!
///////////////////

kdiddy13

Wow, it only takes a week and a half for a pro to do a quality animation! I'm not quite sure what you expect from animators but quality animation takes time. In other words: It may be a little while. Cool your jets, hoss.

you think pros are secretly reading my posts hear and actually started working on moho animations because i started this thread?????? answer:

[Banterfield]

I think zlimbot is actually LM's alter-ego, so he can discreetly goad people on the board.

[kdiddy13]

I think zlimbot is actually LM's alter-ego, so he can discreetly goad people on the board.

Ha!

I knew I shouldn't have gotten involved with this one. Seems like every three months or so someone shows up and calls us a bunch of idiots. The funny thing is, they may be right on some level, if only because we bother trying to carry on a reasonable conversation with someone who obviously has made up their mind up.

(and I'm kicking myself for even writing this, but the little kid in me is screaming, "My dad can beat up your dad...")
Barry Baker's Public Service announcement (http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=855) uses many of the advanced features, including 3D multi-layer cameras. And again, you aren't likely to see a pro animation using the newest features for a little while now. It seriously takes time.

And you are even less likely to see it on the forum. If you go to any Flash forum, it is likely to be filled to the brim with amatures and newbies learning the software for the first time. The pros are typically too busy to monitor and reply to most posts (if they bother taking part in discussions at all). Don't assume that a lack of pros on the forum means that there aren't pros using the program or its features.

And no, I doubt your incoherent, insulting ramblings are going to provoke anyone into animating something for you. But we are answering your questions, repeatedly. You asked why you hadn't seen any animations with the newest features, I told you: time. Give it time.

Do you have a specific question you need help with? If you have a question how to use the new features, there are many experienced people here who could help you out.

[Banterfield]

And no, I doubt your incoherent, insulting ramblings are going to provoke anyone into animating something for you.

Hmmm... nutty slashes, self conscious misspellings and bizarro punctation. That takes some real effort. It's as if he was trying to hide something... I stand by my theory.