Fight scenes (again) and really HUGE files

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kellz5460
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Fight scenes (again) and really HUGE files

Post by kellz5460 »

ok i know fight scenes are just basically a bunch of quick poses and I've dont them albeit briefly in AS using switch layers for a frame by frame sort of thing as I'm trying to animate in 3s or so

this leads to huge files- like...60 or 70mbs for 30frames or something like that

I've also tried using blend morphs which may be good for inbetweens to make the action smoother but don't look right and sort of limit the precision of some posing

Is there any other ways to do this that I'm missing or any tips?

This is a sketch i did in mac flash 8 as an swf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cm4FymvT_M

doing that frame by frame in AS would make like 50mb anme file

This was a blend morph in AS but is not as tight( trying to get better with those)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP9YoKCP7Ac

does anybody have any ideas?
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slowtiger
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Post by slowtiger »

There's no simple solution for this problem, in any software, sorry.

If one frame is completely different from the preceeding frame, it must be stored in its entirety. This is true for video files, for bitmap animation software, and even for an otherwise disk space-friendly application like AS.

But from the look of your examples they shouldn't be that big. If that second scene has 50 MB I suspect there's something strange going on. How often did you duplicate the characters? Are there any invisible layers? Lots of masks?

AS files grow propotionally with the number of frames times the number of keys. If your character has a much larger number of points than necessary, it will show both in file size and in work speed. (This is what happens often with AI imports.)

Very fluid movements in both scenes BTW. Not my topic, but very well done.
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hayasidist
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Post by hayasidist »

I'm going to stray a bit off topic for a moment, so sorry but I'm not totally convinced that AS is a disk-space or performance friendly as it might be. The .anme file is text based and formatted in a way that uses loads of white space between fields without really increasing readability. AS doesn't use the equivalent (lossless) compression techniques for .anme files that can be found in (such as) image or zip files. LUA, the language that AS uses for its drawing, movement etc tools, is an interpreted not compiled language - it's fast, but not as fast as compiled code.

But what you trade against performance is flexibility and ease of access (contrast that with such as the .DOC format in MS -- which MS has recognised as "bad" -- hence the move to XML in the .DOCX format).

IMHO, AS could benefit from some file structure improvements, but those should be "editorial" more than major re-think.

which brings me back to ... 50Mb+ for 30 frames does seem huge (ST has highlighted why this might be) - and that's not far off typical uncompressed AVI (around 2Mb / frame) .. I'm in the realms of guessing here but that feels like thousands of points all moving every frame - so if that is what is happening maybe "designed-for-fbf-software" would be a better choice? Or, to repeat ST's suggestion, look to simplify the way you've told AS to draw and manipulate the characters (which I, too, think are well done!).
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kellz5460
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Post by kellz5460 »

Thanks alot for the information-

Does anybody know any animation software that uses point for FBF?

I guess I could go old school and just draw out the frames by hand and scan em in 1 by 1 but I'm sure there has to be another solution

Also I'm trying to figure out to to overall reduce the number of points. Since my drawings are so detailed for these characters its kind of hard. Also, If I use less points then theres less possible things I can do If I want to make a blend morph I believe
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

AS uses points for FBF.

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This is fbf, on two's using no switch or morphblends.

The anme file is 939 kb.
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neeters_guy
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Post by neeters_guy »

Maybe break up the shots into even smaller chunks and use a batch render?
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kellz5460
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Post by kellz5460 »

GCharb wrote:AS uses points for FBF.

Image

This is fbf, on two's using no switch or morphblends.

The anme file is 939 kb.
you did this just using point animation?
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Yes, 2 seconds at 24 fps on twos with step interpolation.
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hayasidist
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Post by hayasidist »

I agree with Gilles here.

(and he and I have had a chat about his fbf example in "the other place" ... ).

there's also a lot of other discussion about "too many points" in shapes created in (e.g.) freehand or scan, the perceived need for interpolation, why 30fps is smoother, 1s vs 2s, and ...

My own view is that there's a point (no pun intended - sorry!) past which AS falls down. If you really have to be at 2Mb/frame then maybe you've crossed into that territory.

But, looking at what you've done, I too don't think you need to be there. Gilles has about 500Kb/sec (1Mb - 1 character for 2 secs or so). Taking a very simplistic approach - multiply that up by 2 (because you're fast action so probably need 1s) and 2 again - you have 2 actors ... and your upper target should be nearer 2 Mb/sec than 2Mb/frame?


so, as slowtiger suggests - have you got 30 points where 3 will do? did you have auto-fill on and then stacked the "visible" shape on top of a whole stack of now invisible shapes that you can't see but that AS is working on? and .. and .. and ...

my best suggestion is that you take a look at how you've put your drawings together.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

I will make a video set for fbf work in AS, will probably do it in Debut even, since it does not require the tools Pro has.

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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

And this animation is on two's , which is far enough for most, average pace work, one's should be used on really fast motion.

This saves time and resources.
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kellz5460
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Post by kellz5460 »

thx alot- i think some of the problems is how I'm drawing things- only recently have I found out how to get details without a million points
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Post by Lostmymarbles »

I found the best solution for me was a shareware program - (something )fuse.
I'd have a blank 2 second non Anime studio 'movie' (probably 2 jpegs)and fuse it with the anime studio film into 1. I'd then have a far smaller video file.
I'll try and find what it's called - as I need to register and use it regular.
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Matsuemon
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Post by Matsuemon »

Holy cow Gilles, you did that animation using points? I'd never have guessed. This is probably a question for another thread or time, but like in your animation where there is a head turn, some of the points have to basically be hidden behind others. Was that difficult to do? I think I did it before when doing a head turn tutorial, but just figured I'd ask =)
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Post by funksmaname »

but, is Gilles using point motion on a single set of points defined in frame 0? Is kellz duplicating the layers, and using switch layers, or re-drawing a completely new set of points for every frame? This is guaranteed to result in much bigger files, and to a large part is probably an unnecessary workflow.

If you worked with the same set of points as much as possible you will get automatic inbetweens which for the most part will be poop (can be avoided by using 'step' as gilles suggests) , but guide you for making fast action smears - correcting these inbetweens with the magnet tool for example... the fewer points you use to get the results you're happy with visually, the easier it will be to manage doing point motion by hand for best results.
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